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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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yuria hosts Richard Saunders and Stefan

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Richard welcome to the skeptic zone

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number seven peace upon you Stefan peace

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be with you too and as we begin this

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lovely show that is at the top of the

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charts of religion and spirituality in

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the podcast universe can we give thanks

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and praise to the great flying spaghetti

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monster and the pink invisible unicorn

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and all the other entities that live on

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other realms and create the universe for

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us with which to spread the message of

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love and peace so here we are skeptics

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zone number seven number seven for the

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fifth to December and you're right you

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know we are number one in the religion

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and spirituality category in Australian

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podcast isn't it there's a lot of people

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that are interested in religion

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spirituality as we are we are indeed but

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we take a slightly different point of

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view I begged affair but sort of more

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philosophy of us I think so but not only

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that in the past week we got up to

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number 12 in all podcasts in Australia

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oh my goodness me I mean an audio sorry

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and number 20 in all the podcasts so the

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show is really doing well thank you

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everybody for subscribing and thank you

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I know and you're listening now you must

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be because you've just you're

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automatically updated your podcast and

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here we are thank you and we were a big

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show what a show I tell you what we have

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gonna have to be quick because we're

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going to get straight into the show we

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have a special guest a couple of special

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guests one of them is James Randi oh my

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goodness amazing Andy James ready he's

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gay he joined us a couple of months ago

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on a skeptical panel at dragoncon soul

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live recording with Kylie Sturgis Karen

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stalls no and myself and james randi

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awesome a new segment after that is the

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round up with our reporter michael wala

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han where he's going to be talking about

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mel gibson oh oh yeah he sees a classic

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he's a funny guy and Bob Larson The

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Exorcist oh goodness me yeah well sure

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what a show and that's followed by the

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live dr. ray chira ports from Sydney

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skeptics in the pub oh yeah and it

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doesn't stop there it's a good thing

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than that one that's a good segment and

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it doesn't stop there because following

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that is our regular think tank segment

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ah geez what an action-packed show no

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wonder we ride up the charts know when

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do we write up the trash and when you're

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finished listening to the show zip over

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to our website WWF

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zone TV and click the video link and

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there's a whole new interview with

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michael Stackpole who's a star wars

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author ah which kyle easter just did in

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Dragon Con special video content I'll

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tell you what Richard you really did get

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the get the guests in them but there

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must be must be all the praying that you

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do it must be yeah and I I do a lot of

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Reiki myself on myself yeah and it works

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quite well and I think it's helping I

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think you're looking good yeah feeling

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good that's the way to do it and here

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we're in the zone you know you can do

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Reiki over the podcast to everybody put

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your hands up to your iPod now see ah I

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feel the love well let's get straight

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into get into it oh yes skeptics are

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okay so as you can see up on the

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PowerPoint up their global skepticism we

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are in fact members of the skeptic zone

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which is a vodcast podcast we originally

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the tank vodcast and now we've managed

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to revamp the show and we've become the

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skeptic zone what we're going to do is

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contact a hole a massive range of a wide

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variety of countries and our seems to

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answer a few questions and the questions

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that they said that they would gladly

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answer for us involved well what is the

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history of your particular skeptical

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movement what are some of the

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interesting things that you faced and

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and what is some of the more current

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pressing concerns that your particular

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skeptical group have welcome to India

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okay contacting no vendre nayak the

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president of the Indian skeptic movement

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here's a small soundbite that they

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presented about the situation in India

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now if you look back at the history of

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the Indian skeptic move it it actually

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goes back for thousands of years they've

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always been an integral part of the

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evolution of the philosophical thought

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in the subcontinent now there's a

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priestly class that has always

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suppressed it and right now in India

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there's a revival of the so-called

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religious tradition and then and they

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find victims from not only India but

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worldwide after all because if you think

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about it there's the greatness of the

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Vedic culture yoga spirituality and

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stuff you tap into that you can get all

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sorts of people so the federation of

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indian rationalist association is the

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apex body of the rationalist movement in

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India as a present and they've been in

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their present form for about seven

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decades and they're mainly devoted to

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the eradication of superstitions by

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example has anybody in the rooms in a

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documentary called guru busters yeah

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okay I'm surprised that many people

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haven't it was a brilliant documentary

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made oh I'm guessing 88 years ago

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something that order by a British film

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crew where they traveled with the Indian

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rationalists the Indian rationalist SAR

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a wonderful group of people who put

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their lives on the line traveling around

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from village to village confronting the

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spirit men and the witches and all this

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sort of thing and challenging them on

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the spot to do there they're magical um

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claims and they also were behind a very

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famous piece of footage of the Sai Baba

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I was filmed where he was had a betray

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and he can see him reaching underneath

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and suddenly he weighs his hand and a

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big necklace comes out to the

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trouble they had to go through to get

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that tape out because it was suppressed

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even by the government people in the

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government who follow this this

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charlatan religiously literally

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religiously I spent a couple of weeks in

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India I attended the Indian rationalist

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convention in New Delhi and that was it

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an incredibly experienced or by itself

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just being in India but the conditions

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they work under we don't have it tough

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at all in Australia I can promise you

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compared to what they go through in

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India with their billion-plus population

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and entrenched superstition it's a very

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difficult thing for them i recommend you

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google guru busters it's probably online

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I think it was the last time I looked

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there's one very controversial part of

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the thief's ever seen the documentary

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there's one very controversial part

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where one of the local magician's magic

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people claims to be able to cure

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snakebite and snake bite cuer kills a

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lot of people in india of course so in

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order to demonstrate this they had a dog

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there's a huge crowd of people and there

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was a stage in this village and the

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thousands of people turned up and they

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had it was unfortunate but this is what

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they did they had a little dog and the

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snake bit the little dog and then the

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Magic Man waved his arms enchanted and

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everything to save the dog but it didn't

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work and the dog died so that's they got

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a lot of flack for that for killing a

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dog in the name of science next slide

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please Derek they were heading heading

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up to Europe with Hungary this is Gabor

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Horacio the executive president of the

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Hungarian skeptics Society was wonderful

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enough to write to us and he told us

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about the political changes in the 80s

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and early 90s while the so far

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suppressed esoteric practices and

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superstitious beliefs imploded into the

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public arena unbalanced and as you know

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the falling of the Berlin Wall the

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collapse of communism of course it's

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going to have an impact as early as 1992

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scientists and media people initiated a

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movement and I've got the name up there

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i'm sorry i can't pronounce it but it

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means something like the society of

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those respecting facts which i think is

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a nice coordinate yeah I sorry I so I

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believe you had a message for the

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Hungarian skeptics not so long ago on

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the internet as a video was that in

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Hungarian or English everything is

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sufficiently understood in Hungary that

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I didn't any problem getting your drunk

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but i must say that they are also

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sponsoring a definitive test of

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homeopathy probably there take place in

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romania now the ones in Germany de Polan

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now I'm ruining the academic affairs I

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want a thing to do with it they take

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them home be awful silly notion perhaps

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will take place in Romania now and we're

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putting up the billion-dollar project

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spent excellent mmm you're welcome to

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join us sir oh you are you are we can

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just arrange a microphone for mr. ennock

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this gentleman's more travel than

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anybody I have ever met so thank you so

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yes of course complementary and

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alternative medicine has been challenged

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in a variety of countries including the

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UK and some of you might know about

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simon sings recent book that he's

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written in regards to pseudoscience that

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was the one that in fact i think which

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it's been carrying around with the trick

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or treatment a book to look out for it

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you could probably find it in the stores

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i believe are on amazon this one to note

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it's excellent trick or treatment where

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Simon Singh goes through a whole series

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of alternative medical claims and really

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thoroughly analyzes them and I won't

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give the plot away it's certainly oh no

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that's the end of the story yes it's an

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excellent introduction to some of the

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more basic ideas behind cam so if you're

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intrigued by this and want to learn more

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it's a very useful text yeah the next

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country that we're heading for is New

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Zealand oh no no you know yeah

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a which is good because that's a lovely

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lead into my point because we mentioned

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Simon Singh and this is dr. Kris French

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who I believe was that Tam sex yeah dr.

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Chris French's of the UK's skeptics and

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was intriguing that I wrote to him

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saying hi I know you're involved with

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the UK skeptics can you tell us about

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what you're doing and he said UK

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skeptics is an umbrella term and the UK

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isn't like that you can see by the dot

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points there how many groups they have

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we've got the skeptics in the pub the

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anomalistic psychology research centre

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the APR you invited speaker series

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that's at Goldsmiths College where dr.

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Chris French teachers we had the cfi

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London branch that is recently opened

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there's the Association for skeptical

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inquiry or a ski and the bad psychics

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website is another group that Chris

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French mentioned so they just have a

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plethora of people involved in a great

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deal of activities including on as you

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can see up the first the picture there

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of the skeptics in the pub and it was

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00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:52,130
actually started by an Australian of

272
00:10:56,590 --> 00:10:54,290
course oh I mean the Scott Campbell yes

273
00:11:00,820 --> 00:10:56,600
ha he was on a new south wales committee

274
00:11:02,230 --> 00:11:00,830
of course it was yeah of course I think

275
00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:02,240
the British skeptics also benefit from

276
00:11:08,170 --> 00:11:04,930
very high-profile celebrities who are

277
00:11:10,810 --> 00:11:08,180
proud skeptics who's heard of Ricky

278
00:11:13,410 --> 00:11:10,820
Gervais all the comedians from the

279
00:11:17,170 --> 00:11:13,420
office quite a skeptic um Hugh Laurie

280
00:11:20,860 --> 00:11:17,180
who plays the house of course yesli

281
00:11:23,530 --> 00:11:20,870
variety in fact mr. Andy you did an

282
00:11:26,590 --> 00:11:23,540
excellent series in the UK about 1991

283
00:11:28,390 --> 00:11:26,600
James Randi psychically already though

284
00:11:31,090 --> 00:11:28,400
and in the audience were in fact q

285
00:11:33,100 --> 00:11:31,100
lorien Stephen front yes they showed up

286
00:11:34,810 --> 00:11:33,110
and they snuck in and sat on the front

287
00:11:36,699 --> 00:11:34,820
row so the people behind them couldn't

288
00:11:39,670 --> 00:11:36,709
see their faces didn't know who they

289
00:11:44,170 --> 00:11:39,680
were and they had reading done for them

290
00:11:48,910 --> 00:11:44,180
talk about a fiasco total fiasco with a

291
00:11:51,940 --> 00:11:48,920
capital F that's a dirty laughs I'll

292
00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:51,950
bottle that and take it with me I think

293
00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:53,450
it's also interesting to note that in

294
00:11:58,570 --> 00:11:55,490
the UK as well as in this country in our

295
00:12:01,480 --> 00:11:58,580
country Australia one of the most common

296
00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:01,490
claims that we get our water divining

297
00:12:06,009 --> 00:12:04,810
watered housing but such a strong

298
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delusional

299
00:12:09,220 --> 00:12:07,699
illusion that did spread all over the

300
00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:09,230
world I think it's a particularly

301
00:12:12,999 --> 00:12:10,610
prominent in Australia because of the

302
00:12:14,590 --> 00:12:13,009
problems we have with drought but mr.

303
00:12:16,629 --> 00:12:14,600
Andy many of the people who come to you

304
00:12:18,729 --> 00:12:16,639
for the million-dollar challenge I

305
00:12:22,389 --> 00:12:18,739
believe of naming some sort of water oh

306
00:12:24,999 --> 00:12:22,399
yes yes I've done extensive tests of

307
00:12:27,699 --> 00:12:25,009
dousing or divining a few really under

308
00:12:29,829 --> 00:12:27,709
the Australia I with a help of our good

309
00:12:31,359 --> 00:12:29,839
friend Dick Smith of course who has

310
00:12:33,369 --> 00:12:31,369
supported the skeptical movement in

311
00:12:36,090 --> 00:12:33,379
Australia very very successfully over

312
00:12:40,090 --> 00:12:36,100
many years than enthusiastic supporter

313
00:12:41,530 --> 00:12:40,100
and guess what the dowsers didn't win

314
00:12:43,329 --> 00:12:41,540
the million-dollar prize i know that's

315
00:12:46,389 --> 00:12:43,339
astonishing to you but it's true

316
00:12:49,989 --> 00:12:46,399
nonetheless ooh should we move on to the

317
00:12:53,499 --> 00:12:49,999
next one that's New Zealand great ok

318
00:12:57,069 --> 00:12:53,509
here we go Australian flag isn't it no

319
00:12:58,720 --> 00:12:57,079
it's not the Australia they colored in

320
00:13:00,069 --> 00:12:58,730
the little bits in the middle red as you

321
00:13:02,379 --> 00:13:00,079
can see and that makes them New

322
00:13:04,379 --> 00:13:02,389
Zealanders and this is becky hide who i

323
00:13:07,900 --> 00:13:04,389
believe Richard Saunders in fact knows

324
00:13:11,439 --> 00:13:07,910
Vicky hired is the chair and that's her

325
00:13:13,809 --> 00:13:11,449
theme music now I hear so like a farrier

326
00:13:16,090 --> 00:13:13,819
must be hurt Vicky hide is what she

327
00:13:18,340 --> 00:13:16,100
calls herself the chair entity of New

328
00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:18,350
Zealand skeptics and as this is the

329
00:13:22,569 --> 00:13:21,170
chair entity not the chair person or the

330
00:13:24,669 --> 00:13:22,579
chairwoman of the chairman or anything

331
00:13:26,379 --> 00:13:24,679
like the chair entity and the media can

332
00:13:28,660 --> 00:13:26,389
never understand what this means i can

333
00:13:31,269 --> 00:13:28,670
continually get it on yeah have you been

334
00:13:32,799 --> 00:13:31,279
to New Zealand sir Oh have I been to New

335
00:13:36,340 --> 00:13:32,809
Zealand is all apart and sleep on your

336
00:13:39,309 --> 00:13:36,350
back I mean let's get real yes i have

337
00:13:40,900 --> 00:13:39,319
several times thank you wonderful

338
00:13:43,809 --> 00:13:40,910
country I like too many sheep but

339
00:13:45,910 --> 00:13:43,819
nonetheless i love the people it is a

340
00:13:48,100 --> 00:13:45,920
charming country it's beautiful it's not

341
00:13:49,989 --> 00:13:48,110
only is the scenery is like lord of the

342
00:13:51,609 --> 00:13:49,999
rings you're just beautiful but the

343
00:13:57,569 --> 00:13:51,619
people are charming and the sheep are

344
00:14:00,129 --> 00:13:57,579
lovely I guess we move on to china queen

345
00:14:03,039 --> 00:14:00,139
there we go china okay this is john

346
00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:03,049
lombard now some people who might know

347
00:14:06,669 --> 00:14:04,850
him around on foreign boards is wolf man

348
00:14:08,859 --> 00:14:06,679
and he is an inspirational person I

349
00:14:11,530 --> 00:14:08,869
believe that he attended tam 60 some

350
00:14:14,590 --> 00:14:11,540
people might know from that John Lombard

351
00:14:16,659 --> 00:14:14,600
speaks hear about how in 2008 very

352
00:14:18,700 --> 00:14:16,669
recent he helped establish China's first

353
00:14:20,530 --> 00:14:18,710
formal skeptical organization

354
00:14:22,390 --> 00:14:20,540
cooperation with Chinese scientists and

355
00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:22,400
intellectuals he lives in Beijing where

356
00:14:26,050 --> 00:14:23,810
he's in the process of setting up a new

357
00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:26,060
business and one of his main focuses for

358
00:14:29,500 --> 00:14:27,890
the past 10 years or so in China has

359
00:14:31,510 --> 00:14:29,510
begun beginning to promote critical

360
00:14:33,820 --> 00:14:31,520
thinking skills in Chinese education

361
00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:33,830
something that's Tripoli lacking he and

362
00:14:37,180 --> 00:14:35,570
a small group of Chinese scientists

363
00:14:39,580 --> 00:14:37,190
intellectuals got together to establish

364
00:14:41,350 --> 00:14:39,590
the first formal skeptical organization

365
00:14:43,300 --> 00:14:41,360
now not much has been done yet I mean

366
00:14:44,980 --> 00:14:43,310
the olympics has just overwhelmed

367
00:14:46,450 --> 00:14:44,990
everything I mean gosh I probably can't

368
00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:46,460
even find parking to get to the meeting

369
00:14:50,710 --> 00:14:48,650
who don't get much done but there's

370
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:50,720
plans to begin with a small group events

371
00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:52,850
in cities like Beijing Shanghai and then

372
00:14:56,530 --> 00:14:54,290
work towards building a national

373
00:14:58,750 --> 00:14:56,540
organization yeah I believe you've

374
00:15:01,270 --> 00:14:58,760
traveled around the Asian Ares or so oh

375
00:15:03,070 --> 00:15:01,280
yes extensively I'm very very good

376
00:15:05,230 --> 00:15:03,080
friends in China as a matter of fact

377
00:15:08,650 --> 00:15:05,240
because of those encounters but I must

378
00:15:11,740 --> 00:15:08,660
say a great disappointment the US

379
00:15:14,710 --> 00:15:11,750
Embassy in China they refuse to give

380
00:15:17,170 --> 00:15:14,720
visas to two Chinese who wanted to

381
00:15:19,750 --> 00:15:17,180
attend the last amazing leading which

382
00:15:23,230 --> 00:15:19,760
was our record one in order to represent

383
00:15:25,660 --> 00:15:23,240
the Chinese cause of skepticism and they

384
00:15:29,070 --> 00:15:25,670
refused because both of them were young

385
00:15:31,570 --> 00:15:29,080
attractive unmarried Chinese women and

386
00:15:33,460 --> 00:15:31,580
they said they told me in so many words

387
00:15:35,650 --> 00:15:33,470
these people are not going to get visas

388
00:15:37,750 --> 00:15:35,660
there's no question of it we do not give

389
00:15:41,020 --> 00:15:37,760
visas to young attractive unmarried

390
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:41,030
Chinese women and this is ridiculous I

391
00:15:45,940 --> 00:15:43,010
think with the administration about to

392
00:15:48,220 --> 00:15:45,950
change folks probably notice that coming

393
00:15:50,650 --> 00:15:48,230
up in November we may have a change in

394
00:15:52,540 --> 00:15:50,660
that attitude I certainly hope so that

395
00:15:54,130 --> 00:15:52,550
was a blow to us because we were looking

396
00:15:55,870 --> 00:15:54,140
forward to entertain these people and

397
00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:55,880
hearing what they had to say and they

398
00:16:00,460 --> 00:15:57,530
had a lot to say believe me because

399
00:16:02,470 --> 00:16:00,470
China is trying very hard to develop a

400
00:16:05,020 --> 00:16:02,480
skeptical movement there I must say that

401
00:16:06,970 --> 00:16:05,030
what I was in well on one of my trips to

402
00:16:09,820 --> 00:16:06,980
China and there have been several over

403
00:16:12,970 --> 00:16:09,830
the years I got to talk to to Harvard

404
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:12,980
educated Chinese professors there who

405
00:16:16,930 --> 00:16:15,050
were in charge of an acupuncture clinic

406
00:16:19,030 --> 00:16:16,940
and it was moxibustion and the whole

407
00:16:21,340 --> 00:16:19,040
thing all the varieties of acupuncture

408
00:16:24,100 --> 00:16:21,350
that you can imagine and they confided

409
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:24,110
in me they said quite plainly our

410
00:16:29,950 --> 00:16:27,530
medical system is absolutely overpowered

411
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:29,960
by the number of cases that poor in here

412
00:16:32,070 --> 00:16:31,730
every day said there's a line up at the

413
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:32,080
door

414
00:16:37,290 --> 00:16:34,330
every single day we sort them out into

415
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:37,300
people that need medical care and people

416
00:16:42,330 --> 00:16:39,370
who are imagining that they need medical

417
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:42,340
care and in some cases we can't we can't

418
00:16:45,990 --> 00:16:43,810
do it because we just don't have the

419
00:16:48,030 --> 00:16:46,000
facilities but we take into the

420
00:16:50,670 --> 00:16:48,040
acupuncture clinic those that just

421
00:16:52,350 --> 00:16:50,680
imagine they need care and they always

422
00:16:54,780 --> 00:16:52,360
go away satisfied because they've had

423
00:16:58,500 --> 00:16:54,790
something Chinese done and he showed us

424
00:17:01,740 --> 00:16:58,510
a room I'd say three times the size of

425
00:17:04,230 --> 00:17:01,750
this jammed with people with smoking

426
00:17:05,910 --> 00:17:04,240
needles in such this moxibustion has a

427
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:05,920
little platform on the end and they put

428
00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:07,810
a bit of wood punk on it they light it

429
00:17:12,180 --> 00:17:09,850
and apparently the healing heat goes

430
00:17:16,290 --> 00:17:12,190
down through this narrow steel wire yeah

431
00:17:17,730 --> 00:17:16,300
right and enters the the body and heals

432
00:17:19,740 --> 00:17:17,740
people but they're all sitting around

433
00:17:22,590 --> 00:17:19,750
they're very possibly with looking like

434
00:17:24,270 --> 00:17:22,600
human pin cushions and he said these

435
00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:24,280
people are going to feel much much

436
00:17:28,380 --> 00:17:26,530
better for having come here and we will

437
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:28,390
have them sign a paper saying they were

438
00:17:32,100 --> 00:17:30,250
they were properly treated at the

439
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:32,110
acupuncture clinic and that's all we

440
00:17:36,300 --> 00:17:33,610
need to get our funding for the next

441
00:17:38,190 --> 00:17:36,310
year they were being very pragmatic

442
00:17:39,990 --> 00:17:38,200
about it but they confessed that they

443
00:17:41,850 --> 00:17:40,000
knew that it was suggestion and it was

444
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:41,860
the ideomotor effect open up a part

445
00:17:47,100 --> 00:17:43,570
maybe the placebo effect I'll be our key

446
00:17:49,170 --> 00:17:47,110
position the placebo effect and that in

447
00:17:50,820 --> 00:17:49,180
some cases it really worked for these

448
00:17:53,700 --> 00:17:50,830
people and they went away very satisfied

449
00:17:56,300 --> 00:17:53,710
they had to do this bakery knowing that

450
00:18:00,450 --> 00:17:56,310
it was fakery okay we've got one more

451
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:00,460
hurrah where's that where's that well

452
00:18:04,140 --> 00:18:02,290
it's blank because I happen to have the

453
00:18:06,180 --> 00:18:04,150
two representatives sitting here to my

454
00:18:07,710 --> 00:18:06,190
right you are representative as well you

455
00:18:09,300 --> 00:18:07,720
guys have got water so tell me more

456
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:09,310
about administration I'm terrific five

457
00:18:12,990 --> 00:18:11,170
years oh she wants going on tell the

458
00:18:14,430 --> 00:18:13,000
people where where have you gone like a

459
00:18:17,490 --> 00:18:14,440
traditional Australian roaming the world

460
00:18:19,620 --> 00:18:17,500
why are you here um well I've come here

461
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:19,630
to do some research and to lecture at

462
00:18:23,550 --> 00:18:21,360
the University of California Berkeley

463
00:18:25,350 --> 00:18:23,560
and so it's been an interesting

464
00:18:28,170 --> 00:18:25,360
experience to see that the climate the

465
00:18:30,090 --> 00:18:28,180
skeptical climate here and as opposed to

466
00:18:32,790 --> 00:18:30,100
the situation in Australia and I'd say

467
00:18:34,410 --> 00:18:32,800
pretty much we I think people tend to

468
00:18:36,530 --> 00:18:34,420
think that Australians are cynical

469
00:18:38,940 --> 00:18:36,540
people we have a love of humor and irony

470
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:38,950
and that therefore we inherently

471
00:18:43,140 --> 00:18:41,170
skeptical in some way and I don't think

472
00:18:44,430 --> 00:18:43,150
that that's the case I think that we

473
00:18:45,450 --> 00:18:44,440
have the same beliefs the same

474
00:18:47,580 --> 00:18:45,460
pseudoscience and

475
00:18:49,980 --> 00:18:47,590
same paranormal beliefs that people have

476
00:18:52,350 --> 00:18:49,990
here in Australia as well I think it's a

477
00:18:54,570 --> 00:18:52,360
very similar climate using the blogging

478
00:18:56,669 --> 00:18:54,580
networks we started up the blog circle

479
00:18:58,049 --> 00:18:56,679
called the skeptics of Carlos which I

480
00:19:00,180 --> 00:18:58,059
even wrote to you about and said if it's

481
00:19:02,549 --> 00:19:00,190
okay if we use this some of you may not

482
00:19:04,260 --> 00:19:02,559
realize the significance of what Carly

483
00:19:07,919 --> 00:19:04,270
says skeptics of Carlos who's heard of

484
00:19:10,889 --> 00:19:07,929
the great Carlos hoax most people some

485
00:19:14,580 --> 00:19:10,899
people have not many mr. Randy would you

486
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:14,590
care to spend the next five minutes well

487
00:19:24,149 --> 00:19:19,090
funny you should ask I got a call one

488
00:19:26,370 --> 00:19:24,159
day at my home in Florida from a

489
00:19:28,830 --> 00:19:26,380
gentleman from with channel 9i think it

490
00:19:32,490 --> 00:19:28,840
was channeling yeah yes ok with channel

491
00:19:35,130 --> 00:19:32,500
9 who said mr. Rodney and I won't go

492
00:19:36,899 --> 00:19:35,140
through the whole imitation he simply

493
00:19:38,940 --> 00:19:36,909
signified to me that they were

494
00:19:41,010 --> 00:19:38,950
interested in investigating channelers

495
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:41,020
now this was at the height of the fame

496
00:19:45,029 --> 00:19:42,850
of the Chandler's all over the world

497
00:19:47,159 --> 00:19:45,039
that was the big thing everything was

498
00:19:49,260 --> 00:19:47,169
dedicated to channelers in the wool

499
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:49,270
field was like Shirley MacLaine was

500
00:19:54,529 --> 00:19:51,610
popular than yes exactly i remember her

501
00:19:56,789 --> 00:19:54,539
she used to act you know but in any case

502
00:20:00,810 --> 00:19:56,799
out on a limb remember the name of the

503
00:20:03,180 --> 00:20:00,820
book really out on a limb they asked me

504
00:20:05,100 --> 00:20:03,190
if they had some way that they could

505
00:20:06,510 --> 00:20:05,110
investigate the chapters and I said well

506
00:20:08,430 --> 00:20:06,520
you know you can't investigate something

507
00:20:11,070 --> 00:20:08,440
the claims should be five to eight

508
00:20:13,350 --> 00:20:11,080
thousand years old on an average because

509
00:20:15,779 --> 00:20:13,360
these people are all effectively dead

510
00:20:18,299 --> 00:20:15,789
but I said to what you can do is you

511
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:18,309
could set up a Chandler and show how

512
00:20:23,279 --> 00:20:20,890
easy it is to create a channeler with a

513
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:23,289
considerable reputation and they said oh

514
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:25,450
well we'll find an actor is it no no

515
00:20:29,490 --> 00:20:27,490
wait one moment I just covered the phone

516
00:20:32,010 --> 00:20:29,500
and I said to Jose Alvarez the

517
00:20:33,690 --> 00:20:32,020
performance artist who it was with me at

518
00:20:36,690 --> 00:20:33,700
that very moment when the call came and

519
00:20:38,250 --> 00:20:36,700
I said Jose he said yeah I said you want

520
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:38,260
to go to Australia and he said sure what

521
00:20:41,940 --> 00:20:39,850
do I have to do I said differ bindings

522
00:20:44,039 --> 00:20:41,950
in the bag and I just turned two and I

523
00:20:47,010 --> 00:20:44,049
said I've got the man for you and will

524
00:20:48,450 --> 00:20:47,020
create a channeler and I said on the

525
00:20:50,580 --> 00:20:48,460
other end oh that's wonderful wonderful

526
00:20:53,490 --> 00:20:50,590
what should we do and I said well I'll

527
00:20:56,039 --> 00:20:53,500
send you mail on it anyway we negotiated

528
00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:56,049
pretty soon they sent over Richard

529
00:20:59,770 --> 00:20:57,170
Carlton Carl

530
00:21:02,680 --> 00:20:59,780
from Carlton House yes now deceased

531
00:21:06,130 --> 00:21:02,690
unfortunately rather prematurely they

532
00:21:08,380 --> 00:21:06,140
sent him over and he was a host on 60

533
00:21:13,030 --> 00:21:08,390
minutes australia they do one there as

534
00:21:15,970 --> 00:21:13,040
well as you see and it cut a long a very

535
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:15,980
long story rather short a couple of

536
00:21:20,980 --> 00:21:18,050
months after that we traveled off to

537
00:21:22,660 --> 00:21:20,990
Australia he went Carlos he went with

538
00:21:24,580 --> 00:21:22,670
his manager first class in the same

539
00:21:28,210 --> 00:21:24,590
plane where I was in steerage at the

540
00:21:29,470 --> 00:21:28,220
back and when we got off the plane I

541
00:21:31,510 --> 00:21:29,480
don't know what they're ever told you

542
00:21:33,970 --> 00:21:31,520
that Richard this is cute I think when I

543
00:21:35,590 --> 00:21:33,980
got off the plane there was press all

544
00:21:37,930 --> 00:21:35,600
over the place they had done a wonderful

545
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:37,940
promotion job because Carlos the

546
00:21:42,730 --> 00:21:39,770
Chandler was coming to Australia and

547
00:21:45,190 --> 00:21:42,740
they had all the press following him as

548
00:21:46,930 --> 00:21:45,200
he got off the plane and as he came in

549
00:21:49,540 --> 00:21:46,940
through customs and immigration and such

550
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:49,550
and I met the other end of this and the

551
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:51,410
tourist class of course and I hear a

552
00:21:58,300 --> 00:21:54,010
voice ringing out over the whole area

553
00:22:00,460 --> 00:21:58,310
mr. Randy come over here and what the

554
00:22:01,780 --> 00:22:00,470
hell is it was a fellow who recognized

555
00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:01,790
me from another appearance on television

556
00:22:06,610 --> 00:22:04,370
and he wanted to be the one to see me

557
00:22:09,490 --> 00:22:06,620
through the immigration process and

558
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:09,500
whatnot and I got a retracted I don't

559
00:22:16,300 --> 00:22:12,050
people to know I'm here oh I'm sorry mr.

560
00:22:17,950 --> 00:22:16,310
Randy Disher that's cool it but no one

561
00:22:20,170 --> 00:22:17,960
noticed me they're all paying attention

562
00:22:23,350 --> 00:22:20,180
to Carlos I walked out the front with my

563
00:22:26,740 --> 00:22:23,360
suitcases in my hand and here comes

564
00:22:30,070 --> 00:22:26,750
Carlos and his manager going on a red

565
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:30,080
carpet into a limousine and I've stayed

566
00:22:34,420 --> 00:22:33,170
at a rather down at the heel hotel down

567
00:22:36,700 --> 00:22:34,430
the street I didn't want to be noticed

568
00:22:41,230 --> 00:22:36,710
and he stayed in the penthouse along

569
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:41,240
with George the singer I can't think of

570
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:42,730
the guys name by the way I rock singer

571
00:22:46,870 --> 00:22:45,290
so Michael say you got it thank you

572
00:22:49,660 --> 00:22:46,880
George Michael thank you thank you very

573
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:49,670
much glad you came George Michaels who

574
00:22:53,530 --> 00:22:51,410
was in an adjacent suite and they spent

575
00:22:56,170 --> 00:22:53,540
a lot of time together but it was such a

576
00:22:59,080 --> 00:22:56,180
sensation that we created the character

577
00:23:00,640 --> 00:22:59,090
Carlos he got publicity at one day they

578
00:23:03,070 --> 00:23:00,650
catered and said we need front-page news

579
00:23:04,510 --> 00:23:03,080
I said well you can kill somebody and

580
00:23:06,610 --> 00:23:04,520
you know know you've got to be easier

581
00:23:07,730 --> 00:23:06,620
way to go about it and George i

582
00:23:09,710 --> 00:23:07,740
believe the man's name

583
00:23:13,190 --> 00:23:09,720
with a host of a very popular morning

584
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:13,200
show and so we arranged to have a glass

585
00:23:17,660 --> 00:23:15,090
of water thrown in his face when he said

586
00:23:19,490 --> 00:23:17,670
something slating about Carlos that that

587
00:23:21,710 --> 00:23:19,500
perhaps this is all a put-on or so they

588
00:23:23,990 --> 00:23:21,720
had Creighton the face and he's sitting

589
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:24,000
there surprised and they walked off the

590
00:23:30,830 --> 00:23:27,210
set we got front-page headlines on that

591
00:23:33,169 --> 00:23:30,840
negus assaulted on TV it was a day of

592
00:23:34,700 --> 00:23:33,179
little import that there was no

593
00:23:37,190 --> 00:23:34,710
meteorites hitting the earth or anything

594
00:23:40,070 --> 00:23:37,200
like that or wars in Iraq so I guess we

595
00:23:42,290 --> 00:23:40,080
got lucky that day but we filled the

596
00:23:43,820 --> 00:23:42,300
Sydney Opera House not killed it no I

597
00:23:45,770 --> 00:23:43,830
wouldn't say till we got a good crowd in

598
00:23:47,690 --> 00:23:45,780
the Sydney Opera House of people with

599
00:23:49,910 --> 00:23:47,700
beads and crystals and all kinds of

600
00:23:51,650 --> 00:23:49,920
things looking devoutly and he SAT up

601
00:23:53,450 --> 00:23:51,660
there on stage and I was clearing of a

602
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:53,460
backstage and a concealed thing very

603
00:23:57,890 --> 00:23:55,530
muchly peter Popoff you see we got the

604
00:23:59,570 --> 00:23:57,900
Popoff secret and I was saying things

605
00:24:02,000 --> 00:23:59,580
like they will be a world catastrophe

606
00:24:03,470 --> 00:24:02,010
and jose's out there wondering what he's

607
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:03,480
going to follow this with you know there

608
00:24:09,049 --> 00:24:06,330
will be a world's attention and anyway

609
00:24:11,660 --> 00:24:09,059
we we got headlines we got all kinds of

610
00:24:14,870 --> 00:24:11,670
newspaper space and then on 60 minutes

611
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:14,880
australia went on that weekend and it

612
00:24:20,450 --> 00:24:17,250
was great because the first half hour

613
00:24:23,510 --> 00:24:20,460
was building up the myth of carlos the

614
00:24:26,299 --> 00:24:23,520
the Chandler and then the Richard Carson

615
00:24:28,700 --> 00:24:26,309
said but there was somebody else at the

616
00:24:31,610 --> 00:24:28,710
airport to that in our second half hour

617
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:31,620
and then they show this clip figure with

618
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:33,450
the collar up around like this the

619
00:24:39,290 --> 00:24:37,170
fellows same mr. Brandeis so they they

620
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:39,300
showed that section of a so I was the

621
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:41,010
evil genius behind the whole thing and

622
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:43,650
it was very successful we could not pay

623
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:45,690
for a cab ride we could not pick up a

624
00:24:50,540 --> 00:24:48,090
restaurant bill we couldn't pay for

625
00:24:53,030 --> 00:24:50,550
anything in Sydney the next day people

626
00:24:55,820 --> 00:24:53,040
were saying how capital wonderful oh it

627
00:24:58,460 --> 00:24:55,830
was marvelous what you did barlas they

628
00:25:00,830 --> 00:24:58,470
couldn't get over it we were heroes but

629
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:00,840
not with the press who said that was not

630
00:25:04,940 --> 00:25:02,730
a funny thing to do because they were

631
00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:04,950
all taken invite all the newspapers all

632
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:07,200
the TV channels ran Carlos they were

633
00:25:11,900 --> 00:25:08,730
thoroughly taken if we want to show that

634
00:25:14,030 --> 00:25:11,910
you could create a Chandler based on

635
00:25:15,890 --> 00:25:14,040
totally fictitious information we set

636
00:25:17,950 --> 00:25:15,900
them clippings from TV Guide in this

637
00:25:21,020 --> 00:25:17,960
country that we're totally fictitious

638
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:21,030
programs that never existed hosts that

639
00:25:26,030 --> 00:25:23,850
existed newspaper articles the new york

640
00:25:28,070 --> 00:25:26,040
times and such excerpts those articles

641
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:28,080
never appeared it would have taken them

642
00:25:31,610 --> 00:25:30,210
15 minutes to find out whether that

643
00:25:34,310 --> 00:25:31,620
article ever appeared in the air our

644
00:25:36,110 --> 00:25:34,320
times it never did but they didn't check

645
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:36,120
up on it because it might spoil a

646
00:25:40,820 --> 00:25:38,490
perfectly good story to find out what

647
00:25:42,980 --> 00:25:40,830
was really behind it no one checked up

648
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:42,990
on it not even the top and Willis Ian

649
00:25:47,030 --> 00:25:45,090
such other people the top people in

650
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:47,040
Australian television never bothered to

651
00:25:50,990 --> 00:25:48,810
check up on the detail that we had given

652
00:25:53,810 --> 00:25:51,000
and it was all fiction we even named

653
00:25:56,090 --> 00:25:53,820
like a Thursday July the second no

654
00:25:58,310 --> 00:25:56,100
thirsty was not july the second that was

655
00:26:00,080 --> 00:25:58,320
July the fourth that that a year but

656
00:26:01,730 --> 00:26:00,090
they didn't check up even to see whether

657
00:26:04,310 --> 00:26:01,740
the dates might have been possibly

658
00:26:06,530 --> 00:26:04,320
correct or physically possible no one

659
00:26:08,420 --> 00:26:06,540
checked up on anything in the media they

660
00:26:10,340 --> 00:26:08,430
printed it because it was a hot story

661
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:10,350
and it was attractive but it was full of

662
00:26:16,130 --> 00:26:13,530
blue now that's that report James Randi

663
00:26:18,230 --> 00:26:16,140
discusses the 60 minutes where they said

664
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:18,240
this is the amazing man in haha but wait

665
00:26:22,490 --> 00:26:19,650
till this here the second half that's

666
00:26:25,730 --> 00:26:22,500
online and I sincerely recommend you you

667
00:26:27,530 --> 00:26:25,740
google carlos james randi words like

668
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:27,540
that and you'll find the video it's it's

669
00:26:31,610 --> 00:26:29,850
it's classic and it's repeated the story

670
00:26:33,470 --> 00:26:31,620
at least is repeated almost every year

671
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:33,480
in Australia where we have the greatest

672
00:26:38,060 --> 00:26:35,490
hoaxes of all time or the greatest stuff

673
00:26:39,830 --> 00:26:38,070
like that so it's it's there forever and

674
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:39,840
it's a really good lesson to everybody I

675
00:26:43,310 --> 00:26:41,730
think yeah have we learned anything from

676
00:26:46,910 --> 00:26:43,320
it though yeah we've learned that James

677
00:26:48,500 --> 00:26:46,920
Randi keeps doing things with medial

678
00:26:49,850 --> 00:26:48,510
especially in Australia the media died

679
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:49,860
don't know if the media there was that

680
00:26:55,100 --> 00:26:51,530
fellow Don who is the host of the

681
00:26:57,140 --> 00:26:55,110
problem and you can find that on you you

682
00:26:59,960 --> 00:26:57,150
can see em if you google James Randi and

683
00:27:01,820 --> 00:26:59,970
Don lane you'll see a very interesting

684
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:01,830
clip but I won't spoil invitation

685
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:04,050
confrontation on Australian television I

686
00:27:07,910 --> 00:27:05,970
know that we're starting to run out of

687
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:07,920
time I don't know if there's any further

688
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:10,050
questioning yeah we're technically out

689
00:27:18,110 --> 00:27:13,410
of time I like three or four minutes now

690
00:27:20,180 --> 00:27:18,120
so thank all of you for coming Thank You

691
00:27:21,260 --> 00:27:20,190
Randy for joining it I mean stinky I

692
00:27:24,630 --> 00:27:21,270
should have had you on this anyway

693
00:27:32,620 --> 00:27:24,640
before I was more consistent liar

694
00:27:34,300 --> 00:27:32,630
and you came is darkwing duck well as

695
00:27:49,090 --> 00:27:34,310
dragon con you out of that you had to

696
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:51,680
hello my name is Mike wawa and welcome

697
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:53,730
to the roundup where I share news and

698
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:55,650
views will interest skeptics humanists

699
00:28:00,230 --> 00:27:57,810
secularists and followers of the flying

700
00:28:01,790 --> 00:28:00,240
spaghetti monster my first story relates

701
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:01,800
to the Academy award-winning actor

702
00:28:05,150 --> 00:28:03,330
director and producer Mel Gibson

703
00:28:06,470 --> 00:28:05,160
probably most well known for his crass

704
00:28:08,510 --> 00:28:06,480
bloodthirsty sensationalistic

705
00:28:10,310 --> 00:28:08,520
pornographic bloodbath of the film The

706
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:10,320
Passion of the Christ and the saying

707
00:28:13,310 --> 00:28:11,850
Jews are responsible for all the walls

708
00:28:15,770 --> 00:28:13,320
in the world when arrested in july two

709
00:28:19,460 --> 00:28:15,780
thousand and six for drink-driving but i

710
00:28:21,170 --> 00:28:19,470
digress mel gibson has put another 15.2

711
00:28:22,670 --> 00:28:21,180
million into his controversial private

712
00:28:25,130 --> 00:28:22,680
church in california's exclusive

713
00:28:27,110 --> 00:28:25,140
beachside suburb of malibu US federal

714
00:28:29,510 --> 00:28:27,120
tax filing showed Gibson's holy family

715
00:28:30,980 --> 00:28:29,520
catholic church now has tax-free assets

716
00:28:33,050 --> 00:28:30,990
worth a total of sixty four million

717
00:28:34,670 --> 00:28:33,060
Gibson is the sole contributed the

718
00:28:36,470 --> 00:28:34,680
church which is a small congregation of

719
00:28:38,780 --> 00:28:36,480
about 70 members and follows a

720
00:28:40,190 --> 00:28:38,790
five-hundred-year-old ethos Gibson is a

721
00:28:41,300 --> 00:28:40,200
passionate sometimes frothing at the

722
00:28:43,100 --> 00:28:41,310
mouth member of the Catholic

723
00:28:45,410 --> 00:28:43,110
traditionalist movement a small but

724
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:45,420
disturbingly growing Catholic sect the

725
00:28:47,870 --> 00:28:46,410
Catholic traditionalist movement

726
00:28:49,610 --> 00:28:47,880
believed the New Testament is to be

727
00:28:51,260 --> 00:28:49,620
taken literally and the rules and

728
00:28:53,270 --> 00:28:51,270
rituals of the church are to be rigidly

729
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:53,280
followed they celebrate Mass inland

730
00:28:57,260 --> 00:28:54,930
believe that no other language should be

731
00:28:59,000 --> 00:28:57,270
used during a church service in the

732
00:29:00,560 --> 00:28:59,010
Catholic traditional as well there is no

733
00:29:02,750 --> 00:29:00,570
debate or discussion on the issues of

734
00:29:05,030 --> 00:29:02,760
abortion and contraception and women

735
00:29:06,770 --> 00:29:05,040
can't perform church duties frequent

736
00:29:08,990 --> 00:29:06,780
confession is needed believing in

737
00:29:11,060 --> 00:29:09,000
purgatory is a must eating meat on

738
00:29:12,950 --> 00:29:11,070
Fridays is forbidden female followers

739
00:29:15,020 --> 00:29:12,960
must abide by a strict dress code

740
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:15,030
requiring them to wear long skirts and

741
00:29:20,210 --> 00:29:17,850
veils over their hair indeed it sounds

742
00:29:21,950 --> 00:29:20,220
like a real whale of a time it's

743
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:21,960
possible that Mel Gibson picked up on

744
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:23,450
some of these beliefs from his father

745
00:29:27,260 --> 00:29:25,890
Gibson's father Hutton belongs to the

746
00:29:29,210 --> 00:29:27,270
extreme fringe of the Catholic

747
00:29:31,190 --> 00:29:29,220
traditionalist movement which has gone

748
00:29:32,870 --> 00:29:31,200
so far as claiming that the church in

749
00:29:34,970 --> 00:29:32,880
Rome has been taken over by a weird

750
00:29:37,010 --> 00:29:34,980
coalition of Jews and freemasons acting

751
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:37,020
for Satan Gibson senior as a

752
00:29:41,780 --> 00:29:39,210
self-confessed anti-semite and Holocaust

753
00:29:44,090 --> 00:29:41,790
denier in one radio interview he claimed

754
00:29:46,130 --> 00:29:44,100
there were no Nazi extermination camps

755
00:29:47,930 --> 00:29:46,140
and went on to claim their after one

756
00:29:50,300 --> 00:29:47,940
world religion and one world government

757
00:29:52,430 --> 00:29:50,310
that's why they've attacked the Catholic

758
00:29:54,140 --> 00:29:52,440
Church so strongly to ultimately take

759
00:29:56,990 --> 00:29:54,150
control over it by their doctrine

760
00:29:58,590 --> 00:29:57,000
however such conspiracy theories are not

761
00:30:01,350 --> 00:29:58,600
representative of the traditionalist

762
00:30:02,909 --> 00:30:01,360
movement as a whole Oh Mel Gibson though

763
00:30:04,529 --> 00:30:02,919
traditionalists don't believe in

764
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:04,539
reaching out to other Christian faiths

765
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:06,610
and are angry the Second Vatican Council

766
00:30:10,500 --> 00:30:08,530
changed its official opinion of

767
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:10,510
non-catholics from heretics to

768
00:30:15,330 --> 00:30:12,610
recognizing them as separate brethren

769
00:30:16,860 --> 00:30:15,340
Mel Gibson secretive sect is not

770
00:30:18,330 --> 00:30:16,870
recognized by the Catholic Church

771
00:30:20,340 --> 00:30:18,340
because it does not acknowledge the

772
00:30:22,740 --> 00:30:20,350
authority of the Pope or the Vatican

773
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:22,750
Gibson's church's financial coffers are

774
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:24,490
impressive particularly when compared to

775
00:30:28,049 --> 00:30:25,690
the funds of other religious

776
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:28,059
organizations in the u.s. in the past

777
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:29,650
two years Gibson has overseen the

778
00:30:34,289 --> 00:30:31,690
building a much bigger Spanish mission

779
00:30:36,299 --> 00:30:34,299
style church located 400 metres up the

780
00:30:38,490 --> 00:30:36,309
hill from the current building which

781
00:30:41,039 --> 00:30:38,500
we'll see at about 400 people the church

782
00:30:43,289 --> 00:30:41,049
launched in 1999 is on the famed

783
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:43,299
Mulholland Drive said among lush

784
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:45,610
tuscan-style Gardens it is not welcome

785
00:30:50,100 --> 00:30:47,890
strangers has high fences and a heavy

786
00:30:51,630 --> 00:30:50,110
security presence traditionalists would

787
00:30:53,940 --> 00:30:51,640
like nothing more than to be transported

788
00:30:55,980 --> 00:30:53,950
back to a time where Catholicism enjoyed

789
00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:55,990
an unrivaled control over politics and

790
00:31:00,029 --> 00:30:57,850
cultural life they would love to return

791
00:31:01,710 --> 00:31:00,039
to a mystical irrational age where

792
00:31:03,330 --> 00:31:01,720
life's uncertainties could be answered

793
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:03,340
by blind faith and obedience in the

794
00:31:08,100 --> 00:31:05,770
Bible as skeptics we hope these archaic

795
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:08,110
ideas remain in the past and that some

796
00:31:16,060 --> 00:31:09,730
Catholic traditionalists might stray

797
00:31:20,090 --> 00:31:18,140
just when you thought reality-tv

798
00:31:22,100 --> 00:31:20,100
couldn't get any more tedious lame and

799
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:22,110
pointless here comes a story from the

800
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:25,050
USA well blast on a sensationalistic and

801
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:26,970
controversial christian minister who

802
00:31:30,110 --> 00:31:28,410
says he has lived through frightening

803
00:31:32,510 --> 00:31:30,120
scenes similar to those from the movie

804
00:31:35,180 --> 00:31:32,520
The Exorcist now has his own reality TV

805
00:31:38,150 --> 00:31:35,190
show it's cleverly called the real

806
00:31:40,010 --> 00:31:38,160
Exorcist move over Ozzy Osbourne who

807
00:31:41,900 --> 00:31:40,020
wouldn't wanna watch Bob Larson battling

808
00:31:44,690 --> 00:31:41,910
Satan is evil minions with his trusty

809
00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:44,700
Bible and dramatic cross the 63-year old

810
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:46,320
minister says he is before more than

811
00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:49,530
6000 exorcisms in 19 nations reports

812
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:51,510
having been kicked choked and spat upon

813
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:53,490
by people whose demons resisted the

814
00:31:57,860 --> 00:31:55,410
prayers of deliverance or perhaps just

815
00:31:59,750 --> 00:31:57,870
in like the smell of his deodorant Bob

816
00:32:02,000 --> 00:31:59,760
Larson has written more than 30 books

817
00:32:03,950 --> 00:32:02,010
one of them is called the Senators

818
00:32:05,540 --> 00:32:03,960
agenda which is a political thriller

819
00:32:07,370 --> 00:32:05,550
that reveals how summoned government

820
00:32:09,350 --> 00:32:07,380
will stop at nothing even murder to

821
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:09,360
promote the evil agendas of abortion and

822
00:32:14,210 --> 00:32:12,090
homosexuality clearly he is in a fan of

823
00:32:16,700 --> 00:32:14,220
the funny extravagantly silly Priscilla

824
00:32:19,250 --> 00:32:16,710
Queen of the desert Larson for 20 years

825
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:19,260
hosted a broadcast radio program which

826
00:32:23,390 --> 00:32:20,970
discussed Satanism and satanic

827
00:32:25,460 --> 00:32:23,400
possession incessantly he realizes some

828
00:32:27,380 --> 00:32:25,470
people think he's merely a bold showman

829
00:32:29,540 --> 00:32:27,390
or a charlatan taking people's money

830
00:32:31,100 --> 00:32:29,550
some skeptics claim is made a highly

831
00:32:33,470 --> 00:32:31,110
profitable career out of preying on

832
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:33,480
vulnerable people Larson has said this

833
00:32:37,670 --> 00:32:35,610
is real it's not some sort of gimmick

834
00:32:39,650 --> 00:32:37,680
became across a few months ago it's a

835
00:32:42,410 --> 00:32:39,660
normal part of what Jesus Christ did and

836
00:32:44,450 --> 00:32:42,420
taught his disciples to do Larson says

837
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:44,460
his TV show as an opportunity to show

838
00:32:47,990 --> 00:32:46,050
the world that evil spirits and demonic

839
00:32:50,060 --> 00:32:48,000
possessions are real and the people who

840
00:32:52,340 --> 00:32:50,070
are suffering can get help by watching

841
00:32:54,110 --> 00:32:52,350
Larson cast out evil spirits on his show

842
00:32:55,550 --> 00:32:54,120
people who think they have demon

843
00:32:57,950 --> 00:32:55,560
problems will feel as though they've

844
00:32:59,540 --> 00:32:57,960
been quote given permission end quote to

845
00:33:02,210 --> 00:32:59,550
talk about their fears and seek help

846
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:02,220
larson said the demon possessed subjects

847
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:04,170
on the real Exorcist were chosen from

848
00:33:09,500 --> 00:33:05,970
among hundreds of responses to an online

849
00:33:11,750 --> 00:33:09,510
posting at Bob Larson org Larson is

850
00:33:14,540 --> 00:33:11,760
laughably creating a website demon test

851
00:33:16,100 --> 00:33:14,550
calm which is 21 questions for people to

852
00:33:18,470 --> 00:33:16,110
take and assess whether they have low

853
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:18,480
moderate or high probability of demon

854
00:33:22,250 --> 00:33:20,490
possession it's important to note the

855
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:22,260
demonic possession is not recognized as

856
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:24,570
a valid psychiatric or medical diagnosis

857
00:33:27,049 --> 00:33:26,490
and people who profess a belief in

858
00:33:29,119 --> 00:33:27,059
demonic

859
00:33:31,549 --> 00:33:29,129
usually have symptoms associated with

860
00:33:34,119 --> 00:33:31,559
mental illness such as hysteria mania

861
00:33:36,139 --> 00:33:34,129
psychosis epilepsy or schizophrenia

862
00:33:39,619 --> 00:33:36,149
sadly there are numerous cases of

863
00:33:41,269 --> 00:33:39,629
exorcisms gone wrong in 2001 a 37 year

864
00:33:43,249 --> 00:33:41,279
old woman was strangled to death in an

865
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:43,259
exorcism by a Korean church minister

866
00:33:47,989 --> 00:33:45,570
working in New Zealand the minister luk

867
00:33:50,119 --> 00:33:47,999
Lee was found guilty of manslaughter Bob

868
00:33:52,039 --> 00:33:50,129
Larson might not be a huckster and may

869
00:33:53,749 --> 00:33:52,049
have good intentions but should he be

870
00:33:55,220 --> 00:33:53,759
performing exorcisms on people that

871
00:33:57,889 --> 00:33:55,230
should be really under psychiatric care

872
00:33:59,299 --> 00:33:57,899
one might even suggest that Larson who

873
00:34:01,549 --> 00:33:59,309
believes he has the ability to sum up

874
00:34:06,220 --> 00:34:01,559
the power of God death what demons and

875
00:34:06,230 --> 00:34:11,080
you

876
00:34:15,220 --> 00:34:13,570
Ben Radford is managing editor of

877
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:15,230
skeptical Inquirer and the

878
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:16,970
spanish-language skeptical magazine

879
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:19,610
pensar he's a prolific writer for

880
00:34:23,500 --> 00:34:21,050
various publications including

881
00:34:25,990 --> 00:34:23,510
LiveScience calm and is the author of

882
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:26,000
the book media mythmakers co-author of

883
00:34:30,610 --> 00:34:28,490
hoaxes myths and main Ian's and also

884
00:34:32,350 --> 00:34:30,620
lake monster mysteries the latter

885
00:34:35,170 --> 00:34:32,360
co-written with none other than skeptic

886
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:35,180
joe nickell ben is a rare commodity one

887
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:36,530
of the world's very few scientific

888
00:34:43,060 --> 00:34:39,410
paranormal investigators minus the EMF

889
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:43,070
detectors dowsing rods and pendulums he

890
00:34:45,540 --> 00:34:44,570
has spent a decade investigating

891
00:34:49,270 --> 00:34:45,550
numerous claims of the paranormal

892
00:34:51,580 --> 00:34:49,280
including haunted houses Bigfoot psychic

893
00:34:53,950 --> 00:34:51,590
detectives urban legends and much more

894
00:34:55,930 --> 00:34:53,960
with so much to talk about I caught up

895
00:34:58,090 --> 00:34:55,940
with Ben ADIZ office in albuquerque new

896
00:35:00,490 --> 00:34:58,100
mexico where we discussed his work as a

897
00:35:03,310 --> 00:35:00,500
paranormal investigator of the skeptical

898
00:35:05,350 --> 00:35:03,320
kind ben is also the non theological

899
00:35:08,010 --> 00:35:05,360
creator of the controversial game plane

900
00:35:11,190 --> 00:35:08,020
gods the board game of divine domination

901
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:11,200
it's a game of plagues pestilence

902
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:14,090
smiting conversion and resurrection and

903
00:35:21,730 --> 00:35:18,890
you'll urge to be your own God yeah I am

904
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:21,740
i it's been several years in the

905
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:25,130
gestation but i just recently produced

906
00:35:29,950 --> 00:35:27,890
working called playing God wargame

907
00:35:32,620 --> 00:35:29,960
divine domination and it's basically

908
00:35:34,450 --> 00:35:32,630
like us be watching risk so different

909
00:35:36,670 --> 00:35:34,460
people can play gods and you get to kill

910
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:36,680
out other gods followers with lightning

911
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:38,570
plagues local history to try and convert

912
00:35:43,060 --> 00:35:41,290
them this it's very such a very fun and

913
00:35:45,010 --> 00:35:43,070
something little

914
00:35:47,980 --> 00:35:45,020
pigs would like to be able to do I think

915
00:35:49,300 --> 00:35:47,990
so i distract you as a skeptical

916
00:35:52,150 --> 00:35:49,310
investigator would that be an

917
00:35:53,860 --> 00:35:52,160
appropriate label yeah but if I go into

918
00:35:55,780 --> 00:35:53,870
a ghost investigation I might not

919
00:35:57,550 --> 00:35:55,790
introduce myself as a skeptical

920
00:36:00,400 --> 00:35:57,560
investigator but typically the

921
00:36:02,770 --> 00:36:00,410
believable I prefers scientific criminal

922
00:36:04,330 --> 00:36:02,780
investigator could there are lots of

923
00:36:07,930 --> 00:36:04,340
Paranal investigators out there there's

924
00:36:10,210 --> 00:36:07,940
no hundreds out there but I most of them

925
00:36:11,980 --> 00:36:10,220
aren't being birthed at all and you know

926
00:36:16,150 --> 00:36:11,990
scientific methodologies critical

927
00:36:18,300 --> 00:36:16,160
thinking so that that little little

928
00:36:20,170 --> 00:36:18,310
label help to the adjective up to

929
00:36:22,540 --> 00:36:20,180
distinguish me yeah we need to

930
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:22,550
differentiate ourselves from paranormal

931
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:24,410
missed games of that non skeptical kite

932
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:26,570
so you have them broad range of

933
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:28,610
interests and specialties in your

934
00:36:34,300 --> 00:36:30,890
investigations some of these include

935
00:36:37,110 --> 00:36:34,310
urban legends and cryptozoology monsters

936
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:37,120
such as big a fortune by constants

937
00:36:41,500 --> 00:36:39,290
hauntings and ghosts and psychic

938
00:36:45,430 --> 00:36:41,510
detectives we go any other interests or

939
00:36:47,500 --> 00:36:45,440
to be honest I i have I would say about

940
00:36:50,290 --> 00:36:47,510
a half dozen Zora specialties that I've

941
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:50,300
written on and published and

942
00:36:54,940 --> 00:36:52,370
investigated more so than others for

943
00:36:57,940 --> 00:36:54,950
example Lake Monsters Bigfoot urban

944
00:36:59,890 --> 00:36:57,950
legends psychic detectives ghosts things

945
00:37:03,070 --> 00:36:59,900
like that so that they're there maybe a

946
00:37:05,590 --> 00:37:03,080
half dozen sort of core topic terenia

947
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:05,600
yes keep raising the iraqi hates

948
00:37:09,910 --> 00:37:08,570
resident that i'm especially just you

949
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:09,920
know just having done it for a long time

950
00:37:14,770 --> 00:37:11,930
and there's there's like a secondary

951
00:37:16,810 --> 00:37:14,780
care of other things such as crop

952
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:16,820
circles are miracles their stomata or

953
00:37:21,970 --> 00:37:20,330
what happened secondary tvs and y yo

954
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:21,980
skeptic a DG what their heated

955
00:37:27,490 --> 00:37:24,890
skepticism well basically when I was

956
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:27,500
growing up here in here in New Mexico I

957
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:30,650
had during the summer times I was a boy

958
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:32,690
I would go and take my allowance money

959
00:37:37,650 --> 00:37:35,090
coach the used bookstore and that would

960
00:37:39,420 --> 00:37:37,660
funk down five dollars we get you know

961
00:37:41,549 --> 00:37:39,430
full of books and I was very interested

962
00:37:43,470 --> 00:37:41,559
in many of the sort of believer books

963
00:37:45,539 --> 00:37:43,480
you know honor so we have we made a

964
00:37:48,420 --> 00:37:45,549
triangle and ghosts and this and that

965
00:37:50,730 --> 00:37:48,430
and they were filled with stories that

966
00:37:54,210 --> 00:37:50,740
were just amazing and supposedly true

967
00:37:57,390 --> 00:37:54,220
and believe in nany well I did a little

968
00:38:00,180 --> 00:37:57,400
bit but you know I think even then this

969
00:38:02,250 --> 00:38:00,190
is back when I was probably 12 14 years

970
00:38:05,039 --> 00:38:02,260
old I would read the stories and it

971
00:38:07,049 --> 00:38:05,049
seemed very authoritative but as it will

972
00:38:09,450 --> 00:38:07,059
hold on every cycle right he did not

973
00:38:11,279 --> 00:38:09,460
very critical end and there were those

974
00:38:13,559 --> 00:38:11,289
never as far as I can follow any

975
00:38:15,599 --> 00:38:13,569
references it was all sort of you know

976
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:15,609
this person says this and I started to

977
00:38:19,230 --> 00:38:17,410
say well maybe that's true I don't know

978
00:38:21,240 --> 00:38:19,240
that's not true it was a red flag there

979
00:38:23,099 --> 00:38:21,250
are references right as I said well we

980
00:38:25,829 --> 00:38:23,109
know is there is there another side of

981
00:38:27,390 --> 00:38:25,839
the story is there you know is there

982
00:38:29,370 --> 00:38:27,400
only more this one person saying this

983
00:38:31,460 --> 00:38:29,380
you know what's this person's name what

984
00:38:33,450 --> 00:38:31,470
date did this happen how did it happen

985
00:38:35,549 --> 00:38:33,460
mouths thought because I think most

986
00:38:37,260 --> 00:38:35,559
people read these books and just accept

987
00:38:38,819 --> 00:38:37,270
them as you said they single rotated

988
00:38:40,890 --> 00:38:38,829
them they don't think critically they

989
00:38:42,059 --> 00:38:40,900
don't think beyond what they read and

990
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:42,069
there's something about something being

991
00:38:45,930 --> 00:38:43,690
in a book that seems to look at some

992
00:38:49,079 --> 00:38:45,940
authority as well but the credibility of

993
00:38:53,130 --> 00:38:49,089
the print board yes yes which annoys the

994
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:53,140
the case also why are you doing this

995
00:38:58,890 --> 00:38:55,690
anyway how you gradually came to escape

996
00:39:01,019 --> 00:38:58,900
the season yes well I had you know had

997
00:39:03,059 --> 00:39:01,029
that interest in those sorts of books

998
00:39:06,059 --> 00:39:03,069
and down even played in the tooth fairy

999
00:39:07,950 --> 00:39:06,069
I wasn't sure what the Tooth Fairy it

1000
00:39:11,370 --> 00:39:07,960
did seem odd you know I was thinking

1001
00:39:12,630 --> 00:39:11,380
well it's a tooth fairy I didn't know

1002
00:39:15,059 --> 00:39:12,640
the two-third was necessary at an

1003
00:39:17,309 --> 00:39:15,069
American invention about thinking what

1004
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:17,319
if the 230 German joy on my left Dutch

1005
00:39:23,390 --> 00:39:20,770
marks or South Africa due to the due to

1006
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:23,400
the Tooth Fairy ran booze out

1007
00:39:28,849 --> 00:39:25,770
long time well yeah so it's always been

1008
00:39:31,309 --> 00:39:28,859
I was been injured men at one point it's

1009
00:39:33,769 --> 00:39:31,319
given the whole thing apart yeah well

1010
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:33,779
that's because I find that to be the

1011
00:39:39,470 --> 00:39:36,210
most interesting part of things other to

1012
00:39:43,010 --> 00:39:39,480
the scenes we the the joints stories in

1013
00:39:45,289 --> 00:39:43,020
the the the you know the veneers the big

1014
00:39:47,930 --> 00:39:45,299
parts are obvious in the real world the

1015
00:39:49,579 --> 00:39:47,940
parts that are less obvious and more

1016
00:39:52,309 --> 00:39:49,589
interesting to me are a foot or the

1017
00:39:54,950 --> 00:39:52,319
lines that differentiate you know a

1018
00:39:57,380 --> 00:39:54,960
story from an area from my witness

1019
00:40:00,500 --> 00:39:57,390
account what's truth what's was not true

1020
00:40:02,599 --> 00:40:00,510
does it change things like that so is it

1021
00:40:04,970 --> 00:40:02,609
to me this is sort of the divisions that

1022
00:40:07,490 --> 00:40:04,980
really interests me so why do you think

1023
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:07,500
people like you and I are fascinated by

1024
00:40:11,089 --> 00:40:09,690
the paranoia when we're not believe it's

1025
00:40:13,279 --> 00:40:11,099
why do you think we've maintained this

1026
00:40:16,579 --> 00:40:13,289
interest in the paranormal wing Lee

1027
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:16,589
skeptics well I know just speaking for

1028
00:40:21,260 --> 00:40:18,450
myself is that I you know I'm always

1029
00:40:23,269 --> 00:40:21,270
interested in in the world it's often

1030
00:40:26,750 --> 00:40:23,279
the way the world works and why people

1031
00:40:29,510 --> 00:40:26,760
believe things and so to my mind you

1032
00:40:31,279 --> 00:40:29,520
know if I were convinced that these

1033
00:40:33,140 --> 00:40:31,289
things didn't exist if I find you

1034
00:40:35,089 --> 00:40:33,150
absolutely certain that ghosts didn't

1035
00:40:37,819 --> 00:40:35,099
exist for Bigfoot didn't exist or what

1036
00:40:39,890 --> 00:40:37,829
have you I wouldn't waste my time I'm

1037
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:39,900
leaving the directly yeah I I'm

1038
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:42,450
genuinely open-minded and curious now

1039
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:44,490
first you know as they say it's you know

1040
00:40:49,839 --> 00:40:47,970
the ideal is to have you know a mind is

1041
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:49,849
open but not so open your brain is fine

1042
00:40:55,190 --> 00:40:52,170
and so to me that's important

1043
00:40:58,730 --> 00:40:55,200
distinction is being open-minded and not

1044
00:41:00,319 --> 00:40:58,740
not dismissing claims priore but you

1045
00:41:02,210 --> 00:41:00,329
feel like when you say okay because you

1046
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:02,220
know because I get this a lot where

1047
00:41:06,319 --> 00:41:05,010
someone will sort of don't be dismissive

1048
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:06,329
and say oh we were just a debunker

1049
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:08,490
trying to prove thing and I say you know

1050
00:41:11,930 --> 00:41:09,930
people come to me say I know for a fact

1051
00:41:14,210 --> 00:41:11,940
they put exist because I've seen it as

1052
00:41:16,819 --> 00:41:14,220
they will hold on here you think I'm

1053
00:41:19,039 --> 00:41:16,829
close-minded him you just told me you

1054
00:41:20,599 --> 00:41:19,049
are certain that Bigfoot exists i said i

1055
00:41:22,940 --> 00:41:20,609
don't know if they could exist or not i

1056
00:41:24,589 --> 00:41:22,950
said if you think about it you're the

1057
00:41:27,349 --> 00:41:24,599
one that's close minded because you look

1058
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:27,359
closed you're convinced that it's not

1059
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:28,890
possible to Bigfoot does not exist

1060
00:41:30,890 --> 00:41:29,370
because

1061
00:41:33,470 --> 00:41:30,900
not exist not opening themselves up to

1062
00:41:36,170 --> 00:41:33,480
other ways of thinking about that right

1063
00:41:38,990 --> 00:41:36,180
so so I find it ironic that a lot of

1064
00:41:41,030 --> 00:41:39,000
times the very people who were accusing

1065
00:41:42,950 --> 00:41:41,040
skeptics of being closed-minded they

1066
00:41:45,980 --> 00:41:42,960
themselves have have come to the

1067
00:41:48,110 --> 00:41:45,990
conclusion that these things exist they

1068
00:41:50,030 --> 00:41:48,120
are not open today they don't exist and

1069
00:41:51,860 --> 00:41:50,040
where I screeching I'm open to either

1070
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:51,870
way I just want their evidence I think a

1071
00:41:55,940 --> 00:41:54,330
the best skeptics are do you have

1072
00:41:57,710 --> 00:41:55,950
everything I think it's a very important

1073
00:42:01,190 --> 00:41:57,720
thing but have you worked with a new

1074
00:42:04,700 --> 00:42:01,200
believers groups before I have on

1075
00:42:07,540 --> 00:42:04,710
occasion I've been included sometimes

1076
00:42:10,490 --> 00:42:07,550
grudgingly sometimes not in

1077
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:10,500
investigations from with with other sort

1078
00:42:17,060 --> 00:42:12,330
of the believer side as the token

1079
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:17,070
skeptic and I get you know the reactions

1080
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:18,690
have been mixed sometimes they're

1081
00:42:24,830 --> 00:42:21,690
appreciative and they like having

1082
00:42:27,620 --> 00:42:24,840
somebody who's you know keeping the

1083
00:42:31,010 --> 00:42:27,630
reins on the evidence other times they

1084
00:42:33,650 --> 00:42:31,020
grow weary of of reality gaming Lecrae

1085
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:33,660
right and they they all yelled what

1086
00:42:37,700 --> 00:42:35,370
we're going to eat these in those ends

1087
00:42:40,100 --> 00:42:37,710
and the and I believe you're sincere I

1088
00:42:41,870 --> 00:42:40,110
don't think you're you're you're you're

1089
00:42:43,820 --> 00:42:41,880
stupid at you know you and you know

1090
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:43,830
trying to hook to anybody but just move

1091
00:42:47,990 --> 00:42:46,050
for a second explain to me the

1092
00:42:51,050 --> 00:42:48,000
assumptions you know what is the basis

1093
00:42:53,260 --> 00:42:51,060
for your claim that the orbiter goats

1094
00:42:56,900 --> 00:42:53,270
what is the basis for your claim that

1095
00:42:58,070 --> 00:42:56,910
the EMF detectors detect us and when you

1096
00:43:00,350 --> 00:42:58,080
ask them about these assumptions

1097
00:43:03,650 --> 00:43:00,360
oftentimes it hasn't occurred to them

1098
00:43:07,310 --> 00:43:03,660
they wanted it yeah and it's amazing to

1099
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:07,320
me that you know that the basic premises

1100
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:10,530
what they're doing have completely been

1101
00:43:14,390 --> 00:43:12,210
lost on them they oh we never thought

1102
00:43:16,250 --> 00:43:14,400
about that mm okay so it's certainly

1103
00:43:17,720 --> 00:43:16,260
going to mechanic you say you know why

1104
00:43:19,310 --> 00:43:17,730
do you think this this particular tool

1105
00:43:20,500 --> 00:43:19,320
will fix the car why don't know I've

1106
00:43:22,570 --> 00:43:20,510
never tried it

1107
00:43:24,100 --> 00:43:22,580
books and sub perpetuating certain

1108
00:43:25,720 --> 00:43:24,110
processes and ways of doing things but

1109
00:43:28,660 --> 00:43:25,730
without really understanding the basis

1110
00:43:32,140 --> 00:43:28,670
for it at all what sort of evidence is

1111
00:43:35,020 --> 00:43:32,150
being presented to you out of these in

1112
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:35,030
my in my decade or so of doing these

1113
00:43:39,970 --> 00:43:36,770
sorts investigations time ago

1114
00:43:45,220 --> 00:43:39,980
specifically you know I've had the usual

1115
00:43:46,450 --> 00:43:45,230
gammon or got lots of all photos EVPs I

1116
00:43:48,610 --> 00:43:46,460
think that's actually some credibility

1117
00:43:51,100 --> 00:43:48,620
within the field somewhat only

1118
00:43:53,260 --> 00:43:51,110
photographs any their online anyway I'm

1119
00:43:56,380 --> 00:43:53,270
saying is growing trend of people being

1120
00:43:59,070 --> 00:43:56,390
more dismissive of all honor our these

1121
00:44:01,990 --> 00:43:59,080
listening what's the song extent all Oh

1122
00:44:03,670 --> 00:44:02,000
any part of it is sort of originally

1123
00:44:05,860 --> 00:44:03,680
with me some of the skeptics I think

1124
00:44:07,690 --> 00:44:05,870
part of it is it does pop whistle all

1125
00:44:10,390 --> 00:44:07,700
right all right and just things are

1126
00:44:12,430 --> 00:44:10,400
floating around leave there are the

1127
00:44:14,650 --> 00:44:12,440
things i think that they sort of

1128
00:44:16,420 --> 00:44:14,660
realized that that the orbs are not

1129
00:44:18,610 --> 00:44:16,430
getting anywhere that's not an answer

1130
00:44:20,140 --> 00:44:18,620
that's a good point yea big bits on

1131
00:44:23,370 --> 00:44:20,150
recently and she said look not all hopes

1132
00:44:26,590 --> 00:44:23,380
it ghosts nine out of ten volts doctors

1133
00:44:28,420 --> 00:44:26,600
so now you differentiate Betty well I've

1134
00:44:31,750 --> 00:44:28,430
talked to people who say that they can

1135
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:31,760
they can differentiate real ghost horse

1136
00:44:36,610 --> 00:44:34,610
mothers and I asked them exactly what I

1137
00:44:41,890 --> 00:44:36,620
haven't I have a secret method that I

1138
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:41,900
use o brien strategy alright so this

1139
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:43,610
system yes I'm a I've had everything

1140
00:44:50,650 --> 00:44:47,570
from you know cold spots over feelings

1141
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:50,660
headaches I had a case I investigated in

1142
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:53,930
Buffalo several years back where the the

1143
00:44:56,740 --> 00:44:55,130
man of the house believed he'd been

1144
00:44:59,080 --> 00:44:56,750
actually attacked by a ghost at night

1145
00:45:02,320 --> 00:44:59,090
and his bed was kicked and there was a

1146
00:45:04,780 --> 00:45:02,330
demonic face in a photo and also all

1147
00:45:06,730 --> 00:45:04,790
sorts of strange things but as far as

1148
00:45:09,430 --> 00:45:06,740
the scientific method is concerned about

1149
00:45:11,260 --> 00:45:09,440
brown boots in psychology I think we

1150
00:45:12,970 --> 00:45:11,270
should be really encouraging these ghost

1151
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:12,980
hunting groups to use the scientific

1152
00:45:18,010 --> 00:45:16,010
methods or do you think that we should

1153
00:45:21,570 --> 00:45:18,020
really be discouraging them or

1154
00:45:25,740 --> 00:45:21,580
persuading them what they're doing I I

1155
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:25,750
encourage people to do what they want

1156
00:45:30,510 --> 00:45:28,090
if you'll even be close out there yeah I

1157
00:45:33,140 --> 00:45:30,520
mean if you seriously if you if you are

1158
00:45:35,820 --> 00:45:33,150
convinced that Bigfoot is living in

1159
00:45:38,490 --> 00:45:35,830
Northern California knock yourself out

1160
00:45:40,020 --> 00:45:38,500
go get a pair of shoes deterrent still

1161
00:45:42,540 --> 00:45:40,030
some hiking boots on the camera and go

1162
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:42,550
find Bigfoot go for it let the group say

1163
00:45:46,140 --> 00:45:44,410
if you really believe that it goes

1164
00:45:48,900 --> 00:45:46,150
through out there that's oh I don't know

1165
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:48,910
probably that the problem I have is you

1166
00:45:52,290 --> 00:45:50,530
know even try mine if you're not going

1167
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:52,300
to do it scientifically if you're not

1168
00:45:55,020 --> 00:45:53,530
going to methodically if you're not

1169
00:45:57,330 --> 00:45:55,030
going to bring critical thinking to it

1170
00:46:00,480 --> 00:45:57,340
then you're wasting your time you hear

1171
00:46:02,430 --> 00:46:00,490
and frankly the distant puppy the other

1172
00:46:06,030 --> 00:46:02,440
is in the pudding here I mean this you

1173
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:06,040
know in the case of with mostly topics

1174
00:46:09,210 --> 00:46:07,330
but there's goes for Bigfoot would have

1175
00:46:11,790 --> 00:46:09,220
you you know the evidence has not gotten

1176
00:46:13,500 --> 00:46:11,800
any better over the last decades and so

1177
00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:13,510
that's true that's everything for the

1178
00:46:20,460 --> 00:46:18,250
question is why are you stabilized it's

1179
00:46:22,170 --> 00:46:20,470
plateaued if it or anything so the

1180
00:46:24,300 --> 00:46:22,180
question is with more and more people

1181
00:46:26,340 --> 00:46:24,310
looking for these things with better and

1182
00:46:28,020 --> 00:46:26,350
better equipment cheaper because these

1183
00:46:30,180 --> 00:46:28,030
have been recoupment I mean it therein

1184
00:46:31,710 --> 00:46:30,190
lies one of my favs with these people

1185
00:46:33,390 --> 00:46:31,720
that they're using scientific

1186
00:46:35,540 --> 00:46:33,400
instruments thought that doesn't

1187
00:46:37,500 --> 00:46:35,550
necessarily equate the scientific method

1188
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:37,510
alright for example the bite that

1189
00:46:40,860 --> 00:46:38,890
equipment I meant like for people

1190
00:46:43,890 --> 00:46:40,870
looking for Bigfoot to have access to

1191
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:43,900
better cheaper cameras um so but you're

1192
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:46,450
exactly right is that is it just having

1193
00:46:51,030 --> 00:46:48,970
higher tech equipment but mean that your

1194
00:46:52,740 --> 00:46:51,040
your research is any more about that

1195
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:52,750
thing these are tools

1196
00:46:57,180 --> 00:46:54,970
design for the first posting purposes

1197
00:46:59,370 --> 00:46:57,190
yeah yeah whether it's a digital

1198
00:47:03,030 --> 00:46:59,380
thermometers or clear cameras or what

1199
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:03,040
have you again the tour take their cues

1200
00:47:09,570 --> 00:47:05,770
from like the ghost hunters on TV and

1201
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:09,580
they they just will boldly they're using

1202
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:12,610
a EMF detector then I must need to use

1203
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:15,370
it like well no sense standing yeah

1204
00:47:18,690 --> 00:47:17,410
exactly I've got a question for you

1205
00:47:20,670 --> 00:47:18,700
that's really more of a favorite

1206
00:47:22,290 --> 00:47:20,680
question of the paranormal shunt song

1207
00:47:25,170 --> 00:47:22,300
should be being asked this before I know

1208
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:25,180
that I have have you ever witnessed

1209
00:47:30,570 --> 00:47:27,850
anything inexplicable in all these years

1210
00:47:33,210 --> 00:47:30,580
of your investigations you have ever

1211
00:47:35,070 --> 00:47:33,220
witnessed anything that you considered

1212
00:47:38,300 --> 00:47:35,080
to be supernatural or paranormal or

1213
00:47:41,190 --> 00:47:38,310
anything that you couldn't explain I

1214
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:41,200
certainly encountered things that I

1215
00:47:46,170 --> 00:47:44,170
couldn't explain I think everybody has I

1216
00:47:47,670 --> 00:47:46,180
mean if you're honest but your song I

1217
00:47:49,980 --> 00:47:47,680
don't know everything and I can't

1218
00:47:51,810 --> 00:47:49,990
explain everything just because I just

1219
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:51,820
because I can't explain it at that

1220
00:47:56,820 --> 00:47:53,650
moment doesn't mean it's unexplainable

1221
00:47:58,560 --> 00:47:56,830
so for example you know I might see

1222
00:48:00,540 --> 00:47:58,570
something in the sky at night you know

1223
00:48:04,830 --> 00:48:00,550
as I'm driving home and it shoots across

1224
00:48:07,410 --> 00:48:04,840
the sky can I explain that no no I mean

1225
00:48:09,660 --> 00:48:07,420
I don't know what that was with some

1226
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:09,670
research I could probably figure it out

1227
00:48:14,310 --> 00:48:12,010
but so yeah all the times is not

1228
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:14,320
worthwhile is not notable enough so so

1229
00:48:20,370 --> 00:48:17,050
you know there there there are lots of

1230
00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:20,380
things that I've experienced that are or

1231
00:48:26,220 --> 00:48:24,250
unusual or on but I don't assume that

1232
00:48:29,190 --> 00:48:26,230
just because I can't explain it means

1233
00:48:30,930 --> 00:48:29,200
there is no explanation who do you like

1234
00:48:32,820 --> 00:48:30,940
to actually see a ghost because I think

1235
00:48:35,940 --> 00:48:32,830
a lot of the ladies think that we just

1236
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:35,950
may say is we don't believe we don't

1237
00:48:39,720 --> 00:48:37,450
want to believe that there's something

1238
00:48:41,790 --> 00:48:39,730
holding us back from believing so would

1239
00:48:44,370 --> 00:48:41,800
you like to uncover any species or would

1240
00:48:47,730 --> 00:48:44,380
you like to meet Elvis well certainly I

1241
00:48:49,230 --> 00:48:47,740
you know I I would love to do to be the

1242
00:48:52,260 --> 00:48:49,240
first person to prove the ghosts exist

1243
00:48:54,330 --> 00:48:52,270
or to see a Bigfoot it softly

1244
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:54,340
the skeptic that I've ever worked with

1245
00:48:57,480 --> 00:48:55,810
who you didn't want to live in a haunted

1246
00:49:00,360 --> 00:48:57,490
house so I didn't want to see a ghost

1247
00:49:01,830 --> 00:49:00,370
well you're exactly right and it's what

1248
00:49:04,620 --> 00:49:01,840
I find interesting is that a lot of

1249
00:49:08,460 --> 00:49:04,630
times the people who are critical of the

1250
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:08,470
skeptics have this idea this sort of

1251
00:49:13,410 --> 00:49:11,050
bizarre notion that the skeptics are

1252
00:49:15,690 --> 00:49:13,420
somehow uncomfortable with the idea of

1253
00:49:17,970 --> 00:49:15,700
the paranormal there they were so

1254
00:49:21,210 --> 00:49:17,980
terrified it doesn't fit in the signs of

1255
00:49:24,030 --> 00:49:21,220
the paradigms that that we we would like

1256
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:24,040
you all the time is right that we fall

1257
00:49:29,370 --> 00:49:26,290
into a queasy quivering puddle of result

1258
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:29,380
and I like now all this is is going back

1259
00:49:36,210 --> 00:49:31,570
to the meeting that we're around that we

1260
00:49:38,250 --> 00:49:36,220
give off negative energy yeah convenient

1261
00:49:40,530 --> 00:49:38,260
yes yeah nice way of rationalizing

1262
00:49:43,670 --> 00:49:40,540
things are there any places that you

1263
00:49:47,190 --> 00:49:43,680
would like to investigate that you have

1264
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:47,200
so far so stories that you might treat

1265
00:49:51,420 --> 00:49:49,690
in the future yeah and there's a there's

1266
00:49:53,990 --> 00:49:51,430
of them I mean to be honest with you I

1267
00:49:56,250 --> 00:49:54,000
have a backlog of several dozen

1268
00:49:59,820 --> 00:49:56,260
investigations in cases that I've looked

1269
00:50:02,700 --> 00:49:59,830
into the sea in some cases finish

1270
00:50:05,340 --> 00:50:02,710
another one's not so I still got a long

1271
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:05,350
backlog but you know I've on there a

1272
00:50:10,710 --> 00:50:07,690
couple places that I've always wanted to

1273
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:10,720
uh I mean for example Stonehenge I last

1274
00:50:14,700 --> 00:50:12,850
time i was in london i didn't i didn't

1275
00:50:16,950 --> 00:50:14,710
get around to sing Stonehenge I'd like

1276
00:50:19,830 --> 00:50:16,960
to see that in me struck me as being

1277
00:50:22,500 --> 00:50:19,840
black being wherever you go they're all

1278
00:50:24,510 --> 00:50:22,510
my stories and she'll just turn take

1279
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:24,520
them as you come across them sure and

1280
00:50:29,010 --> 00:50:26,170
sometimes those are those interesting

1281
00:50:30,990 --> 00:50:29,020
ones I you know I at least in my mind

1282
00:50:32,910 --> 00:50:31,000
one of the things i learned from from

1283
00:50:35,460 --> 00:50:32,920
degree viewing angle senior research

1284
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:35,470
fellow at psycho is being opportunistic

1285
00:50:41,130 --> 00:50:37,690
so if you're like for example when i was

1286
00:50:43,140 --> 00:50:41,140
in newfoundland in canada before i went

1287
00:50:45,420 --> 00:50:43,150
to newfoundland I just research on it I

1288
00:50:48,870 --> 00:50:45,430
found a Spring Heeled Jack siding and

1289
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:48,880
st. John's I found giant squid washed up

1290
00:50:52,020 --> 00:50:50,650
there were there was a lake monster up

1291
00:50:55,470 --> 00:50:52,030
there that turned into a chapter in my

1292
00:50:58,230 --> 00:50:55,480
book there were all sorts of things so

1293
00:51:00,420 --> 00:50:58,240
if you if you do some research and you

1294
00:51:02,910 --> 00:51:00,430
look into it there's almost no where in

1295
00:51:05,490 --> 00:51:02,920
the world where there isn't some story

1296
00:51:07,110 --> 00:51:05,500
of a ghost or a monster or some sort of

1297
00:51:09,930 --> 00:51:07,120
that's true i found that to be the case

1298
00:51:11,340 --> 00:51:09,940
as well traveled extensively and

1299
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:11,350
Tourette's country and internationally

1300
00:51:17,970 --> 00:51:13,570
and there's just always something for

1301
00:51:20,730 --> 00:51:17,980
it's a story in even small towns so are

1302
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:20,740
just finally if people would like to

1303
00:51:25,530 --> 00:51:22,690
find out more about your work and to

1304
00:51:27,210 --> 00:51:25,540
meteor also if this is about to contact

1305
00:51:29,220 --> 00:51:27,220
you somehow what are the ways that thank

1306
00:51:32,690 --> 00:51:29,230
you get in touch with you got websites

1307
00:51:34,860 --> 00:51:32,700
and lots and yeah well certainly the

1308
00:51:37,650 --> 00:51:34,870
people are sleeping on my website

1309
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:37,660
radford books calm re d afford ebooks

1310
00:51:44,540 --> 00:51:42,010
calm also for my organ playing God's

1311
00:51:47,730 --> 00:51:44,550
calm I'm here I'm there I'm everywhere

1312
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:47,740
let's moving huh there you go well thank

1313
00:51:51,990 --> 00:51:50,050
you very much free time today well thank

1314
00:51:54,330 --> 00:51:52,000
you it so it's good to get a chance to

1315
00:51:57,210 --> 00:51:54,340
to get a chance to talk to the the

1316
00:52:07,819 --> 00:51:57,220
skeptics down under and the podcasters

1317
00:52:16,349 --> 00:52:11,189
now it's time for dr. Rachel reports

1318
00:52:20,969 --> 00:52:16,359
with dr. Rachel Dunlop hello Sydney

1319
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:20,979
skeptics in the pub how are you all very

1320
00:52:26,279 --> 00:52:24,249
good welcome to this very special first

1321
00:52:28,769 --> 00:52:26,289
live edition of dr. Reggie reports and

1322
00:52:34,559 --> 00:52:28,779
hello to everyone here and say hello to

1323
00:52:37,289 --> 00:52:34,569
all our listeners okay well last week I

1324
00:52:39,449 --> 00:52:37,299
did a talk at the Zoological Society at

1325
00:52:41,459 --> 00:52:39,459
taronga zoo here in Sydney and it was

1326
00:52:43,709 --> 00:52:41,469
for a forum which was about science

1327
00:52:44,939 --> 00:52:43,719
under siege and it was basically a group

1328
00:52:47,660 --> 00:52:44,949
of scientists getting together and

1329
00:52:49,739 --> 00:52:47,670
having a whinge but also genuinely

1330
00:52:51,599 --> 00:52:49,749
voicing their complaints about how is

1331
00:52:53,549 --> 00:52:51,609
difficult to work in science these days

1332
00:52:55,410 --> 00:52:53,559
and some of those complaints included

1333
00:52:57,359 --> 00:52:55,420
the fact that we don't get a lot of

1334
00:52:59,819 --> 00:52:57,369
funding or we only get funding for a

1335
00:53:03,449 --> 00:52:59,829
very short period of time some of our

1336
00:53:05,549 --> 00:53:03,459
science gets utilized in ways to suit

1337
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:05,559
for example politicians when it comes to

1338
00:53:10,229 --> 00:53:08,890
things like climate change and I was

1339
00:53:12,419 --> 00:53:10,239
lucky enough to participate in this

1340
00:53:14,849 --> 00:53:12,429
forum and I talked about the hijacking

1341
00:53:17,219 --> 00:53:14,859
of scientific terminology and technology

1342
00:53:20,910 --> 00:53:17,229
by proponents of alternative medicine

1343
00:53:24,380 --> 00:53:20,920
and one of the things I wanted to talk

1344
00:53:28,999 --> 00:53:24,390
about was some experiences I had at the

1345
00:53:31,529 --> 00:53:29,009
mind-body-spirit festival recently and I

1346
00:53:33,779 --> 00:53:31,539
witnessed a large amount of the

1347
00:53:36,779 --> 00:53:33,789
hijacking of scientific terminology and

1348
00:53:37,979 --> 00:53:36,789
also scientific technology and many of

1349
00:53:41,839 --> 00:53:37,989
you here have been to the mind-body

1350
00:53:45,509 --> 00:53:41,849
wallet I'm in spirit haven't you mean

1351
00:53:48,599 --> 00:53:45,519
it's a fantastic array of all kinds of

1352
00:53:50,609 --> 00:53:48,609
cam and woo and well-being from

1353
00:53:53,009 --> 00:53:50,619
supplements to you know nice clothes and

1354
00:53:55,319 --> 00:53:53,019
smelly candles to stuff hang it quite

1355
00:53:57,989 --> 00:53:55,329
dangerous and I wanted to present to you

1356
00:54:01,469 --> 00:53:57,999
today a little case study about a

1357
00:54:03,509 --> 00:54:01,479
modality known as hair analysis now some

1358
00:54:04,799 --> 00:54:03,519
of you may have listened to my podcast a

1359
00:54:06,809 --> 00:54:04,809
couple of weeks back where I talked

1360
00:54:08,620 --> 00:54:06,819
about live blood analysis did anyone

1361
00:54:13,860 --> 00:54:08,630
hear that or read the blog

1362
00:54:17,620 --> 00:54:13,870
oh yeah hair analysis is similar

1363
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:17,630
technique in that you will give a sample

1364
00:54:23,860 --> 00:54:20,090
of your hair to these people you'll pay

1365
00:54:27,970 --> 00:54:23,870
a nominal fee generally about 195

1366
00:54:30,370 --> 00:54:27,980
australian dollars they actually refer

1367
00:54:31,690 --> 00:54:30,380
to it as the affordable way to determine

1368
00:54:34,660 --> 00:54:31,700
what's making you sick now I've

1369
00:54:36,130 --> 00:54:34,670
questioned that to begin with but what I

1370
00:54:38,710 --> 00:54:36,140
wanted to bring to your attention is how

1371
00:54:41,110 --> 00:54:38,720
they hijack real science and scientific

1372
00:54:44,700 --> 00:54:41,120
technology and terminology to lend

1373
00:54:46,780 --> 00:54:44,710
legitimacy to they're basically quackery

1374
00:54:48,010 --> 00:54:46,790
and so what you'll do is you'll give

1375
00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:48,020
them a piece of your hair and I actually

1376
00:54:51,130 --> 00:54:49,330
saw this in action at the

1377
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:51,140
mind-body-spirit a couple of weeks ago

1378
00:54:55,990 --> 00:54:53,450
they have a machine they stick a piece

1379
00:54:59,170 --> 00:54:56,000
of your hair into a beaker a few lights

1380
00:55:00,940 --> 00:54:59,180
flash a dial flickers and then there's

1381
00:55:03,250 --> 00:55:00,950
attached to that is a computer screen

1382
00:55:06,790 --> 00:55:03,260
and a printer and it prints out what I

1383
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:06,800
term randomly generated piece of paper

1384
00:55:12,300 --> 00:55:09,290
with things that they claim they can

1385
00:55:16,240 --> 00:55:12,310
tell about your allergies from your hair

1386
00:55:18,310 --> 00:55:16,250
so we watch this in action a couple of

1387
00:55:20,050 --> 00:55:18,320
weeks ago and I was I was interested

1388
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:20,060
actually as to how this worked because

1389
00:55:24,100 --> 00:55:22,010
I'm a scientist so I kind of have some

1390
00:55:26,710 --> 00:55:24,110
idea of the scientific method and to me

1391
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:26,720
it didn't look very scientific and the

1392
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:28,490
first example of the hijacking of

1393
00:55:31,990 --> 00:55:30,410
scientific terminology which I want to

1394
00:55:37,510 --> 00:55:32,000
bring to your attention was that it's

1395
00:55:39,220 --> 00:55:37,520
done with quantum technology now isn't

1396
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:39,230
this fantastic guys I mean I've got

1397
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:41,450
friends who work in physics and I know

1398
00:55:44,890 --> 00:55:43,130
they've been working on quantum for a

1399
00:55:46,090 --> 00:55:44,900
quite a long time and Eric and they'd be

1400
00:55:48,490 --> 00:55:46,100
pleased to know that this stuff is

1401
00:55:50,140 --> 00:55:48,500
working in alternative medicine because

1402
00:55:53,950 --> 00:55:50,150
it sure as hell isn't working in our

1403
00:55:56,380 --> 00:55:53,960
real science so what they say to you is

1404
00:56:00,970 --> 00:55:56,390
that they'll do biocompatibility testing

1405
00:56:02,890 --> 00:56:00,980
and they claim that they can determine

1406
00:56:05,740 --> 00:56:02,900
from analyzing your hair in this fashion

1407
00:56:07,510 --> 00:56:05,750
whether you're allergic to it about 300

1408
00:56:09,700 --> 00:56:07,520
different compounds and you'll get a

1409
00:56:11,410 --> 00:56:09,710
printout that will say okay you

1410
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:11,420
shouldn't eat tomatoes but you can eat

1411
00:56:14,990 --> 00:56:13,970
mushrooms or you can eat macadamia nuts

1412
00:56:17,780 --> 00:56:15,000
but donate pain

1413
00:56:19,310 --> 00:56:17,790
and they become really specific in one

1414
00:56:22,370 --> 00:56:19,320
of these printouts that I saw it said

1415
00:56:25,250 --> 00:56:22,380
don't use cold power blue but I guess

1416
00:56:27,590 --> 00:56:25,260
cold power yellow is fine and don't eat

1417
00:56:30,290 --> 00:56:27,600
Swiss cheese but you know cheese from

1418
00:56:31,940 --> 00:56:30,300
Glee air is fine so it must be the

1419
00:56:35,900 --> 00:56:31,950
quantum I think that's making it this is

1420
00:56:38,900 --> 00:56:35,910
clever and as I mentioned it's only 195

1421
00:56:41,210 --> 00:56:38,910
dollars and then what you do is you

1422
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:41,220
follow their advice for a period of a

1423
00:56:45,050 --> 00:56:43,530
couple of months after that time during

1424
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:45,060
that time they might recommend you take

1425
00:56:48,470 --> 00:56:46,370
some of their expensive supplements

1426
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:48,480
which are upwards of about a hundred

1427
00:56:53,060 --> 00:56:51,330
bucks a kilo and then after that period

1428
00:56:54,590 --> 00:56:53,070
you come back for a second follow-up

1429
00:57:00,080 --> 00:56:54,600
tests so they can determine if you are

1430
00:57:01,970 --> 00:57:00,090
better now this technique hair analysis

1431
00:57:05,540 --> 00:57:01,980
is in fact a legitimate scientific

1432
00:57:07,970 --> 00:57:05,550
technique and so by clouding that this

1433
00:57:09,260 --> 00:57:07,980
technique with the quantum and saying

1434
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:09,270
they can do all this stuff is really

1435
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:13,410
deceitful in fact I've got an instance

1436
00:57:17,150 --> 00:57:15,090
where hair analysis is currently being

1437
00:57:19,700 --> 00:57:17,160
used in real science and its really it's

1438
00:57:22,190 --> 00:57:19,710
a fascinating story a friend of mine is

1439
00:57:24,470 --> 00:57:22,200
an ethno botanist and he's been doing

1440
00:57:27,500 --> 00:57:24,480
studies of indigenous populations across

1441
00:57:29,780 --> 00:57:27,510
the world for some time and he's

1442
00:57:31,730 --> 00:57:29,790
recently been looking at the Chamorro

1443
00:57:33,620 --> 00:57:31,740
people who are the indigenous people of

1444
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:33,630
Guam which shows you know our Islands

1445
00:57:39,110 --> 00:57:37,410
owned by the United States and it was

1446
00:57:41,270 --> 00:57:39,120
found that these people had a fifty to a

1447
00:57:43,310 --> 00:57:41,280
hundred times greater incidence of a

1448
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:43,320
motor neuron disease which was similar

1449
00:57:48,620 --> 00:57:46,050
to Parkinson's sort of like Alzheimer's

1450
00:57:49,809 --> 00:57:48,630
and a bit like ALS which is what Stephen

1451
00:57:51,939 --> 00:57:49,819
Hawking has

1452
00:57:53,559 --> 00:57:51,949
and when he were went to investigate

1453
00:57:55,539 --> 00:57:53,569
this to try and figure out why these

1454
00:57:57,640 --> 00:57:55,549
people had such a higher rate of this

1455
00:57:59,890 --> 00:57:57,650
disease he found out that it was linked

1456
00:58:03,549 --> 00:57:59,900
to their diet now what's interesting

1457
00:58:05,439 --> 00:58:03,559
about this is that this it turned out

1458
00:58:07,329 --> 00:58:05,449
when they did post-mortem and looked at

1459
00:58:10,449 --> 00:58:07,339
their than motor neurons they found this

1460
00:58:12,579 --> 00:58:10,459
high level of a toxic am I know acid and

1461
00:58:14,410 --> 00:58:12,589
when he looked through their diet he

1462
00:58:17,019 --> 00:58:14,420
found out that it occurs in the seeds

1463
00:58:18,489 --> 00:58:17,029
from the cycad tree and in fact these

1464
00:58:20,469 --> 00:58:18,499
people the Chamorro is they use the

1465
00:58:22,839 --> 00:58:20,479
cycad seeds to make flour to make

1466
00:58:25,299 --> 00:58:22,849
tortillas but they know that it contains

1467
00:58:26,949 --> 00:58:25,309
toxin so they generally wash the flour

1468
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:26,959
really well to make sure they don't get

1469
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:30,410
the toxin but what it was been what was

1470
00:58:35,289 --> 00:58:32,930
happening was the local fruit bat

1471
00:58:37,449 --> 00:58:35,299
population loves to eat the cycad seeds

1472
00:58:40,059 --> 00:58:37,459
and the local indigenous people like to

1473
00:58:41,410 --> 00:58:40,069
eat the fruit bats so essentially you

1474
00:58:43,660 --> 00:58:41,420
are getting the concentration of this

1475
00:58:45,969 --> 00:58:43,670
toxin in the free pass and then the

1476
00:58:48,039 --> 00:58:45,979
people were making a coconut soup out of

1477
00:58:49,509 --> 00:58:48,049
these fruit bats where they just get the

1478
00:58:51,489 --> 00:58:49,519
whole animal and they took it up in

1479
00:58:53,979 --> 00:58:51,499
coconut milk I need everything including

1480
00:58:56,709 --> 00:58:53,989
the brain the bones the skin the wings

1481
00:58:57,789 --> 00:58:56,719
everything and just as an aside and you

1482
00:58:59,920 --> 00:58:57,799
don't need to put this in the podcast

1483
00:59:04,410 --> 00:58:59,930
Richard did anyone watch survivor last

1484
00:59:08,079 --> 00:59:04,420
night oh this stays in the vodka because

1485
00:59:11,049 --> 00:59:08,089
there was a survivor auction where you

1486
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:11,059
could get a reward you would bid for

1487
00:59:14,949 --> 00:59:12,410
something that you couldn't see it was

1488
00:59:18,849 --> 00:59:14,959
covered and one guy beard something like

1489
00:59:21,579 --> 00:59:18,859
250 US dollars and got a bat soup bat

1490
00:59:25,269 --> 00:59:21,589
coconut soup and I watched in horror as

1491
00:59:27,609 --> 00:59:25,279
this guy ate it thinking now that I know

1492
00:59:30,910 --> 00:59:27,619
this stuff is I wouldn't I wouldn't go

1493
00:59:32,890 --> 00:59:30,920
there but anyway I digress so basically

1494
00:59:35,319 --> 00:59:32,900
this this gentleman dr. Paul Cox has

1495
00:59:37,089 --> 00:59:35,329
found a way to actually measure the

1496
00:59:39,279 --> 00:59:37,099
levels of this toxic amino acid through

1497
00:59:41,589 --> 00:59:39,289
your hair and this is now a test that

1498
00:59:44,709 --> 00:59:41,599
he's using to determine if people are a

1499
00:59:45,989 --> 00:59:44,719
greater risk of getting this ALS pvt

1500
00:59:48,269 --> 00:59:45,999
type illness

1501
00:59:49,679 --> 00:59:48,279
but of course he doesn't do it by

1502
00:59:53,399 --> 00:59:49,689
sitting at a mind-body-spirit festival

1503
00:59:56,669 --> 00:59:53,409
with a machine figures and guys and no

1504
00:59:59,879 --> 00:59:56,679
lights I pay you he uses high-end mass

1505
01:00:02,699 --> 00:59:59,889
spectrometry gas chromatography it's

1506
01:00:05,159 --> 01:00:02,709
quite a complicated long winded process

1507
01:00:07,229 --> 01:00:05,169
and it is real science and is actually

1508
01:00:09,289 --> 01:00:07,239
helping to diagnose this disease in

1509
01:00:12,809 --> 01:00:09,299
indigenous populations across the world

1510
01:00:14,279 --> 01:00:12,819
and in fact it turns out this will be of

1511
01:00:16,889 --> 01:00:14,289
interest to a lot of you here this

1512
01:00:19,649 --> 01:00:16,899
particular toxin exists in what's known

1513
01:00:25,679 --> 01:00:19,659
as cyanobacteria does anyone know what

1514
01:00:27,149 --> 01:00:25,689
cyanobacteria are blue-green algae so

1515
01:00:29,369 --> 01:00:27,159
some of us would have heard of

1516
01:00:30,779 --> 01:00:29,379
incidences where we get blooms of

1517
01:00:33,509 --> 01:00:30,789
blue-green algae in our drinking water

1518
01:00:35,309 --> 01:00:33,519
and the government tells us they're just

1519
01:00:37,859 --> 01:00:35,319
it's all right we've sprayed it it's

1520
01:00:39,689 --> 01:00:37,869
dead don't worry about it well I think

1521
01:00:41,399 --> 01:00:39,699
we might need to worry about a little

1522
01:00:43,859 --> 01:00:41,409
bit I'm not saying don't trust the

1523
01:00:45,779 --> 01:00:43,869
government this is not a conspiracy it's

1524
01:00:48,059 --> 01:00:45,789
not it's not but the take home message

1525
01:00:50,339 --> 01:00:48,069
from from dr. Cox was whatever you do

1526
01:00:52,739 --> 01:00:50,349
just don't drink like green dirty water

1527
01:00:59,759 --> 01:00:52,749
just don't because I don't eat fruit bad

1528
01:01:02,339 --> 01:00:59,769
driver so my point is that this is a

1529
01:01:04,349 --> 01:01:02,349
legitimate scientific technique it's

1530
01:01:07,619 --> 01:01:04,359
being used for good science and for

1531
01:01:09,479 --> 01:01:07,629
medicine across the world and the thing

1532
01:01:11,669 --> 01:01:09,489
with alternative medicine proponents is

1533
01:01:13,679 --> 01:01:11,679
they will they will hydrate these sort

1534
01:01:15,989 --> 01:01:13,689
of things they'll use the terminology to

1535
01:01:17,639 --> 01:01:15,999
lend legitimacy to their product and for

1536
01:01:19,859 --> 01:01:17,649
somebody who doesn't have a scientific

1537
01:01:22,199 --> 01:01:19,869
background or is not very scientifically

1538
01:01:23,639 --> 01:01:22,209
literate it's very difficult to

1539
01:01:25,319 --> 01:01:23,649
determine whether they're telling the

1540
01:01:27,989 --> 01:01:25,329
truth or whether what they're doing is

1541
01:01:30,599 --> 01:01:27,999
real and so these people who call

1542
01:01:34,129 --> 01:01:30,609
themselves n DS which is as we know

1543
01:01:38,969 --> 01:01:34,139
Richard I'm not a doctor that's correct

1544
01:01:41,159 --> 01:01:38,979
or naturopathic doctor same thing they

1545
01:01:43,259 --> 01:01:41,169
are tight there you know targeting these

1546
01:01:45,989 --> 01:01:43,269
vulnerable people and taking their money

1547
01:01:47,540 --> 01:01:45,999
from them when they are in very

1548
01:01:50,330 --> 01:01:47,550
desperate situations and

1549
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:50,340
by hijacking scientific terminology and

1550
01:01:57,110 --> 01:01:51,570
technology and makes it even more

1551
01:01:59,180 --> 01:01:57,120
deceitful so that's just one example and

1552
01:02:02,960 --> 01:01:59,190
I'm afraid to tell you there are many

1553
01:02:04,970 --> 01:02:02,970
many many more and the presentation i

1554
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:04,980
gave at the turret Taronga Zoo last week

1555
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:06,690
I showed some pictures of some of the

1556
01:02:13,250 --> 01:02:09,090
machinery that these people use and then

1557
01:02:15,770 --> 01:02:13,260
give exotic names to and probably if you

1558
01:02:17,300 --> 01:02:15,780
heard my um dr. Rachel reports on life

1559
01:02:19,820 --> 01:02:17,310
blood analysis or read my blog you'll

1560
01:02:21,170 --> 01:02:19,830
see they use special microscopes that

1561
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:21,180
are only used in the Pasteur Institute

1562
01:02:26,300 --> 01:02:24,210
and the scripts laboratory and they

1563
01:02:28,370 --> 01:02:26,310
actually are used there but they used

1564
01:02:31,820 --> 01:02:28,380
for real science not for life blood

1565
01:02:34,370 --> 01:02:31,830
analysis so this is not the worst of it

1566
01:02:36,500 --> 01:02:34,380
there's a lot more but I think we'll

1567
01:02:56,590 --> 01:02:36,510
leave it now for the next episode of dr.

1568
01:03:01,400 --> 01:02:59,090
congratulations to Adam Hawking of West

1569
01:03:03,980 --> 01:03:01,410
End Queensland who is our winner for the

1570
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:03,990
death from the skies prize he has sent

1571
01:03:09,230 --> 01:03:06,450
him to us a fabulous new skeptic zone

1572
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:09,240
t-shirt logo and slogan that you'll be

1573
01:03:13,850 --> 01:03:11,970
able to see on our zazzle range many

1574
01:03:15,530 --> 01:03:13,860
many thanks to those who entered it was

1575
01:03:18,260 --> 01:03:15,540
a really tough choice and we appreciate

1576
01:03:19,940 --> 01:03:18,270
all of your creativity will be looking

1577
01:03:22,130 --> 01:03:19,950
forward to running another contest soon

1578
01:03:24,140 --> 01:03:22,140
and in the meantime feel free to send us

1579
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:24,150
your ideas and your feedback to our

1580
01:03:30,890 --> 01:03:29,130
website on ww skeptic zone TV and of

1581
01:03:32,780 --> 01:03:30,900
course you can always continue to show

1582
01:03:35,210 --> 01:03:32,790
your support for the skeptic zone by

1583
01:03:42,260 --> 01:03:35,220
reviewing us on iTunes and digging us on

1584
01:03:50,789 --> 01:03:42,270
dig join us now for drinking skeptically

1585
01:03:59,130 --> 01:03:53,130
well welcome again to this think tank

1586
01:04:00,959 --> 01:03:59,140
and river as you can tell I'm not with

1587
01:04:02,429 --> 01:04:00,969
the normal think tank people a couple of

1588
01:04:04,979 --> 01:04:02,439
the normal think them people I've got

1589
01:04:07,079 --> 01:04:04,989
Amanda normal they're not normal I have

1590
01:04:09,539 --> 01:04:07,089
Amanda Rose hello Amanda hello and

1591
01:04:12,089 --> 01:04:09,549
Rachel Dunlop of course hello Richard

1592
01:04:14,069 --> 01:04:12,099
and our special guests filling in for my

1593
01:04:15,779 --> 01:04:14,079
koala hand today on the think tank is

1594
01:04:19,169 --> 01:04:15,789
none other than Tiffani Dave from

1595
01:04:20,549 --> 01:04:19,179
Macquarie skeptics alerted me hello glad

1596
01:04:22,049 --> 01:04:20,559
you could make it here to our favorite

1597
01:04:26,789 --> 01:04:22,059
clubs where we love to do the thing tank

1598
01:04:28,829 --> 01:04:26,799
so cheers everybody cheers a big shout

1599
01:04:31,349 --> 01:04:28,839
out to our good friends at the skeptics

1600
01:04:33,179 --> 01:04:31,359
guide to the universe and a big thank

1601
01:04:35,099 --> 01:04:33,189
you for them from for mentioning us

1602
01:04:37,049 --> 01:04:35,109
because Steve novella as you will recall

1603
01:04:40,019 --> 01:04:37,059
from our last episode was our special

1604
01:04:41,429 --> 01:04:40,029
guest as an interview and they gave us a

1605
01:04:43,859 --> 01:04:41,439
good mention at the end of their show

1606
01:04:46,229 --> 01:04:43,869
and we I've had so many people contact

1607
01:04:47,969 --> 01:04:46,239
me so excited that the sdu team are

1608
01:04:50,699 --> 01:04:47,979
coming to Australia I know it's two

1609
01:04:52,499 --> 01:04:50,709
years away but still there's some guy

1610
01:04:54,209 --> 01:04:52,509
came up to me today i have to now plan

1611
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:54,219
my holidays for that time of the year to

1612
01:04:57,779 --> 01:04:56,170
follow them around the country and we've

1613
01:05:00,120 --> 01:04:57,789
had people in my lesson offer to help

1614
01:05:03,479 --> 01:05:00,130
out in any way they can with organizing

1615
01:05:05,130 --> 01:05:03,489
there's gu trip so so if you if you

1616
01:05:07,650 --> 01:05:05,140
don't listen to the skeptics guide to

1617
01:05:10,140 --> 01:05:07,660
the universe podcast his own lessons

1618
01:05:13,289 --> 01:05:10,150
please do it's one of the best skeptical

1619
01:05:16,289 --> 01:05:13,299
podcasts out there and if you feel so

1620
01:05:18,689 --> 01:05:16,299
inclined please assist them with

1621
01:05:20,759 --> 01:05:18,699
donations to help them come to Australia

1622
01:05:21,700 --> 01:05:20,769
in two years time and I think we'll all

1623
01:05:23,620 --> 01:05:21,710
benefit

1624
01:05:26,829 --> 01:05:23,630
you--you--let injurious to you people

1625
01:05:30,070 --> 01:05:26,839
shouting yeah and I must also thank all

1626
01:05:32,130 --> 01:05:30,080
the zone listeners and other people out

1627
01:05:36,070 --> 01:05:32,140
there who donate it to my movember

1628
01:05:40,540 --> 01:05:36,080
campaign where is the moment where is

1629
01:05:42,339 --> 01:05:40,550
the momo went down the scene but thanks

1630
01:05:46,150 --> 01:05:42,349
to the generosity of zone listeners and

1631
01:05:47,980 --> 01:05:46,160
other friends I raised for my mustache

1632
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:47,990
raised over eight hundred dollars for

1633
01:05:52,630 --> 01:05:50,570
medical research so I'm very happy and a

1634
01:05:54,550 --> 01:05:52,640
good big thinking thank you everybody

1635
01:05:56,770 --> 01:05:54,560
that's great Rachel do you have anything

1636
01:05:58,930 --> 01:05:56,780
for us today sure I do actually I've got

1637
01:06:03,160 --> 01:05:58,940
a story about a poll that was done in

1638
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:03,170
the UK recently of 3,000 people and it

1639
01:06:05,980 --> 01:06:04,970
came up that fifty eight percent of

1640
01:06:08,380 --> 01:06:05,990
people believe in the supernatural

1641
01:06:11,859 --> 01:06:08,390
whilst only fifty four percent believe

1642
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:11,869
in God wait a minute God is seeping out

1643
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:14,810
okay I'm okay you're being pedantic

1644
01:06:20,349 --> 01:06:17,210
alright just more people believe in

1645
01:06:22,829 --> 01:06:20,359
aliens and ghosts than in God a new

1646
01:06:25,150 --> 01:06:22,839
survey finds from a British newspaper

1647
01:06:27,460 --> 01:06:25,160
now that could be some sort of

1648
01:06:29,410 --> 01:06:27,470
confounding variables in this survey in

1649
01:06:31,630 --> 01:06:29,420
for the reason that it was done by a

1650
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:31,640
marketing firm and it was released and

1651
01:06:38,410 --> 01:06:36,530
with an x-files DVD right so I think

1652
01:06:42,430 --> 01:06:38,420
maybe their audience was a bit self

1653
01:06:46,390 --> 01:06:42,440
selecting however one of the researchers

1654
01:06:48,190 --> 01:06:46,400
did say that parable paranormal beliefs

1655
01:06:50,290 --> 01:06:48,200
are very strongly negatively correlated

1656
01:06:52,570 --> 01:06:50,300
with religious beliefs so apparently

1657
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:52,580
most devout practitioners of religion

1658
01:06:57,070 --> 01:06:55,250
have shown to be least likely to believe

1659
01:06:59,140 --> 01:06:57,080
in the supernatural and this is because

1660
01:07:01,720 --> 01:06:59,150
religion discourages the belief in

1661
01:07:03,310 --> 01:07:01,730
ghosts or aliens or Bigfoot for example

1662
01:07:06,860 --> 01:07:03,320
that's very interesting because a lot of

1663
01:07:08,660 --> 01:07:06,870
them comes why would they question goes

1664
01:07:12,290 --> 01:07:08,670
if they're really just the Holy Spirit

1665
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:12,300
you mean yeah well it just makes sense

1666
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:15,690
to me that if they believe in God and

1667
01:07:20,630 --> 01:07:18,090
and and that something happens to you

1668
01:07:22,850 --> 01:07:20,640
after you die isn't that delicious of

1669
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:22,860
what it is like they were wondering and

1670
01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:24,210
inflating around and I think named

1671
01:07:29,750 --> 01:07:26,970
christian orthodox sort of Christian

1672
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:29,760
theology I mean you go to heaven or you

1673
01:07:32,930 --> 01:07:31,410
go to help and that's where your spirits

1674
01:07:34,670 --> 01:07:32,940
are and they're not wandering the halls

1675
01:07:36,770 --> 01:07:34,680
of an ancient what if you're in the

1676
01:07:40,010 --> 01:07:36,780
house in what if you're a baby that

1677
01:07:43,100 --> 01:07:40,020
wasn't baptized well I mean that's a

1678
01:07:46,370 --> 01:07:43,110
particular Catholic you but I don't

1679
01:07:47,660 --> 01:07:46,380
think that they even say that you're

1680
01:07:50,390 --> 01:07:47,670
sort of wandering around with your head

1681
01:07:52,820 --> 01:07:50,400
in your under your arm I mean like Harry

1682
01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:52,830
Potter that but that's a good point

1683
01:07:57,290 --> 01:07:55,530
because I had so many people calling

1684
01:07:59,220 --> 01:07:57,300
themselves psychics who will say to me

1685
01:08:02,089 --> 01:07:59,230
something like

1686
01:08:03,829 --> 01:08:02,099
god bless the king

1687
01:08:06,019 --> 01:08:03,839
they're tying themselves through

1688
01:08:07,789 --> 01:08:06,029
Christianity religion by saying it has

1689
01:08:09,529 --> 01:08:07,799
to be the Christian s just a figure of

1690
01:08:12,049 --> 01:08:09,539
speech I know it's a figure of speech

1691
01:08:13,849 --> 01:08:12,059
but it's they're claiming all these

1692
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:13,859
wonderful paranormal powers which other

1693
01:08:20,289 --> 01:08:17,449
Christians would identify with demonic

1694
01:08:23,269 --> 01:08:20,299
noises but just to finish the story of

1695
01:08:26,149 --> 01:08:23,279
they quote in this article a survey that

1696
01:08:28,189 --> 01:08:26,159
was done of us college students in 2006

1697
01:08:30,859 --> 01:08:28,199
and they found that twenty-three percent

1698
01:08:34,280 --> 01:08:30,869
of freshmen had a general belief in

1699
01:08:36,769 --> 01:08:34,290
paranormal concepts however which

1700
01:08:38,809 --> 01:08:36,779
included astrology and things like

1701
01:08:40,030 --> 01:08:38,819
communicating with the dead and this

1702
01:08:43,519 --> 01:08:40,040
number jumped to thirty one percent

1703
01:08:45,260 --> 01:08:43,529
among seniors and graduate students well

1704
01:08:48,589 --> 01:08:45,270
actually in Creemore tiffany's they got

1705
01:08:50,450 --> 01:08:48,599
more educated being a current university

1706
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:50,460
student mentor yes what do you think

1707
01:08:55,820 --> 01:08:52,770
about that situation are many people in

1708
01:08:58,939 --> 01:08:55,830
the early stages in your experience away

1709
01:09:03,439 --> 01:08:58,949
with the pixies and I'm not too sure

1710
01:09:04,939 --> 01:09:03,449
about supernatural stuff per se I know

1711
01:09:07,399 --> 01:09:04,949
that a lot of the people of my

1712
01:09:09,559 --> 01:09:07,409
university are religious and in

1713
01:09:11,180 --> 01:09:09,569
particular Christian and that was

1714
01:09:13,999 --> 01:09:11,190
surprising to me when I first started

1715
01:09:15,690 --> 01:09:14,009
there because it expected a university

1716
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:15,700
of people to be

1717
01:09:22,530 --> 01:09:17,530
a bit more intelligent than the average

1718
01:09:25,290 --> 01:09:22,540
Joe he's a university and I just didn't

1719
01:09:28,340 --> 01:09:25,300
expect to see that amount is literally

1720
01:09:31,790 --> 01:09:28,350
the university's bombarded with

1721
01:09:34,530 --> 01:09:31,800
religious paraphernalia mostly

1722
01:09:37,950 --> 01:09:34,540
evangelical Christians oh yeah but it's

1723
01:09:40,730 --> 01:09:37,960
mostly one group there are two groups no

1724
01:09:43,650 --> 01:09:40,740
no no nobody ever got about 13 of them

1725
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:43,660
different groups they all have different

1726
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:45,730
advertising and marketing all over the

1727
01:09:49,200 --> 01:09:47,530
place posters they hold different events

1728
01:09:50,700 --> 01:09:49,210
all the time and I'm like I've said

1729
01:09:53,450 --> 01:09:50,710
before we're the only our Macquarie

1730
01:09:56,340 --> 01:09:53,460
skeptics group is the only skeptical

1731
01:09:58,170 --> 01:09:56,350
related group at the University there's

1732
01:09:59,970 --> 01:09:58,180
not even there's an atheist group one

1733
01:10:01,350 --> 01:09:59,980
other atheist group but it's very small

1734
01:10:05,790 --> 01:10:01,360
and it's still trying to get up on its

1735
01:10:07,860 --> 01:10:05,800
feet so there's nothing else I just

1736
01:10:09,630 --> 01:10:07,870
would expect there to be more skeptical

1737
01:10:12,930 --> 01:10:09,640
groups at a university I think there

1738
01:10:14,730 --> 01:10:12,940
will be what it just mean Tiffany you

1739
01:10:16,770 --> 01:10:14,740
consider a speciality or what you're

1740
01:10:19,590 --> 01:10:16,780
studying is astronomy of course yes one

1741
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:19,600
of the things I love that Phil Plait dr.

1742
01:10:26,450 --> 01:10:23,410
Philip 87 was that the real universe out

1743
01:10:29,730 --> 01:10:26,460
there is so much more wonderful and

1744
01:10:33,390 --> 01:10:29,740
extensive and a stand or inspiring than

1745
01:10:34,950 --> 01:10:33,400
any text from any religious book I I say

1746
01:10:36,570 --> 01:10:34,960
that all the time and so many other

1747
01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:36,580
people have said it Carl Sagan said

1748
01:10:43,440 --> 01:10:39,370
something similar to that I really don't

1749
01:10:45,630 --> 01:10:43,450
understand how people aren't amazed at

1750
01:10:47,820 --> 01:10:45,640
just reality the reality of it all all I

1751
01:10:50,940 --> 01:10:47,830
can think of is that they're not aware

1752
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:50,950
or their religion teaches them that

1753
01:10:56,209 --> 01:10:54,090
that's not true

1754
01:10:57,939 --> 01:10:56,219
you know fundamentalist Christians what

1755
01:10:59,439 --> 01:10:57,949
I haven't learned yet I don't

1756
01:11:01,089 --> 01:10:59,449
there are a lot of people out there that

1757
01:11:02,649 --> 01:11:01,099
still think you know the earth is the

1758
01:11:05,319 --> 01:11:02,659
center of the universe and what would

1759
01:11:06,549 --> 01:11:05,329
that kind of thing our Amanda um you

1760
01:11:11,739 --> 01:11:06,559
were mentioning something to us earlier

1761
01:11:16,089 --> 01:11:11,749
about funny good game very funny just a

1762
01:11:19,899 --> 01:11:16,099
bit of a lighter segue I saw something

1763
01:11:22,180 --> 01:11:19,909
on my sister's blog a while ago just his

1764
01:11:24,609 --> 01:11:22,190
mom it's got a cunning plan cunning plan

1765
01:11:27,279 --> 01:11:24,619
blogspot com her name is cons which it

1766
01:11:29,859 --> 01:11:27,289
does it she unfortunately has been

1767
01:11:31,899 --> 01:11:29,869
smuggled off to live in America she

1768
01:11:36,790 --> 01:11:31,909
lives in place she lives in Flagstaff

1769
01:11:39,399 --> 01:11:36,800
Arizona and she blogged about this she

1770
01:11:43,209 --> 01:11:39,409
bought it she went to a secondhand

1771
01:11:47,350 --> 01:11:43,219
bookshop in Flagstaff called the

1772
01:11:50,109 --> 01:11:47,360
bookmans and found this board game which

1773
01:11:54,069 --> 01:11:50,119
was $18 she says aamir $18 it doesn't

1774
01:11:59,319 --> 01:11:54,079
send Mia to me she obviously thought it

1775
01:12:02,589 --> 01:11:59,329
was worth it and it is a very glossy

1776
01:12:04,870 --> 01:12:02,599
high production very professional

1777
01:12:10,540 --> 01:12:04,880
looking board game called intelligent

1778
01:12:13,120 --> 01:12:10,550
design versus evolution that's wrong but

1779
01:12:16,930 --> 01:12:13,130
that's only the second part of the title

1780
01:12:19,149 --> 01:12:16,940
you can't make the stuff I saved the

1781
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:19,159
best for second the first part of the

1782
01:12:26,140 --> 01:12:21,650
title is Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron

1783
01:12:28,959 --> 01:12:26,150
present oh no knowledge it is I'm run

1784
01:12:31,750 --> 01:12:28,969
again evolution Ray Comfort and Kirk

1785
01:12:36,020 --> 01:12:31,760
Cameron if you don't know about their

1786
01:12:38,830 --> 01:12:36,030
fame in evangelical circles just look up

1787
01:12:41,509 --> 01:12:38,840
youtube about the you know the na

1788
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:41,519
bananas or evolution bananas how long

1789
01:12:46,310 --> 01:12:44,130
its own yes so I'll put these pictures

1790
01:12:50,629 --> 01:12:46,320
on the website but today I wanted me you

1791
01:12:53,629 --> 01:12:50,639
know but it's a so it's a board game

1792
01:12:55,970 --> 01:12:53,639
called intelligent design and evolution

1793
01:12:59,060 --> 01:12:55,980
it was secondhand but cole says that it

1794
01:13:01,399 --> 01:12:59,070
was completely pristine so someone's got

1795
01:13:04,060 --> 01:13:01,409
it as a present and you can think of

1796
01:13:07,669 --> 01:13:04,070
this as always they can have basalt nice

1797
01:13:11,540 --> 01:13:07,679
but on the front of the box it has a

1798
01:13:13,399 --> 01:13:11,550
Gold Seal that with this quote Ray

1799
01:13:15,169 --> 01:13:13,409
Comfort and Kirk Cameron are doing much

1800
01:13:17,779 --> 01:13:15,179
more than revealing the bankruptcy of

1801
01:13:20,209 --> 01:13:17,789
molecules to man evolution enjoy this

1802
01:13:22,879 --> 01:13:20,219
wonderful family game as you also become

1803
01:13:25,129 --> 01:13:22,889
better equipped to defend our precious

1804
01:13:27,950 --> 01:13:25,139
Christian effect till a marriage bill

1805
01:13:29,689 --> 01:13:27,960
that was going to depart go into that

1806
01:13:32,020 --> 01:13:29,699
and I feel this service will be

1807
01:13:36,350 --> 01:13:32,030
departing in five minutes time thank you

1808
01:13:40,149 --> 01:13:36,360
sorry I have to go that's my bus that's

1809
01:13:44,689 --> 01:13:40,159
a quote from a very famous Australian

1810
01:13:47,419 --> 01:13:44,699
any guesses and Ken Ham Answers in

1811
01:13:49,370 --> 01:13:47,429
Genesis I'm actually I'm glad you

1812
01:13:51,919 --> 01:13:49,380
brought up god Amanda because I'm

1813
01:13:56,060 --> 01:13:54,529
i came across God's Facebook page today

1814
01:13:57,770 --> 01:13:56,070
have you seen God's facebook page

1815
01:14:00,410 --> 01:13:57,780
Tiffany I'd love to add him as a friend

1816
01:14:09,669 --> 01:14:00,420
oh you can but actually is quite funny

1817
01:14:17,629 --> 01:14:14,689
Oh converted in what you do think on my

1818
01:14:22,160 --> 01:14:17,639
ex was the internet and networking age

1819
01:14:24,229 --> 01:14:22,170
you know note well apparently God has a

1820
01:14:25,939 --> 01:14:24,239
Facebook page but it is allegedly

1821
01:14:27,649 --> 01:14:25,949
difficult to find if you just type got

1822
01:14:30,020 --> 01:14:27,659
into Facebook you don't find anything oh

1823
01:14:32,509 --> 01:14:30,030
really it's only put Yahweh of these

1824
01:14:35,330 --> 01:14:32,519
mysterious ways well oh yeah God does

1825
01:14:39,379 --> 01:14:35,340
work in mysterious ways as you know that

1826
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:39,389
is set for it maybe he comes to you when

1827
01:14:50,419 --> 01:14:44,130
you're ready any wonder if you wanna

1828
01:14:52,129 --> 01:14:50,429
are you do you seek now you guys

1829
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:52,139
shouldn't take the mickey out of this

1830
01:14:55,399 --> 01:14:53,610
because it's quite serious if you have a

1831
01:14:58,600 --> 01:14:55,409
look at God's wall which I just printed

1832
01:15:02,020 --> 01:14:58,610
out here you can see the

1833
01:15:04,270 --> 01:15:02,030
the series of how God created the world

1834
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:04,280
and it's all it's all documented on his

1835
01:15:08,650 --> 01:15:06,890
wall well thank God for that so everyone

1836
01:15:11,290 --> 01:15:08,660
heard to facebook and be friends you got

1837
01:15:13,780 --> 01:15:11,300
I bet he cheats at Scrabble I bet he

1838
01:15:16,810 --> 01:15:13,790
does how probably now talking about good

1839
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:16,820
friends a big shout out to him and

1840
01:15:22,710 --> 01:15:20,330
Carrie I win in Minnesota hi Timothy I

1841
01:15:24,810 --> 01:15:22,720
carry I did

1842
01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:24,820
some of you may know I had a birthday in

1843
01:15:30,870 --> 01:15:27,730
the last week since the last his own

1844
01:15:34,290 --> 01:15:30,880
went to air did we I'm happy birthday

1845
01:15:36,570 --> 01:15:34,300
Richard I had a birthday as well oh wait

1846
01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:36,580
you did too i'm sorry we happy birthday

1847
01:15:40,650 --> 01:15:38,770
right should we need to get that what

1848
01:15:42,870 --> 01:15:40,660
birthday party oh that birthday party oh

1849
01:15:44,580 --> 01:15:42,880
we will place a little bit happen and

1850
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:44,590
remember that did you have the bestest

1851
01:15:50,430 --> 01:15:46,570
buddy apparently yes yeah we don't

1852
01:15:54,560 --> 01:15:50,440
remember it either anyway Tim and I have

1853
01:15:57,420 --> 01:15:54,570
sent me a fortune-teller miracle fish Oh

1854
01:15:59,100 --> 01:15:57,430
now if you take the packet and read on

1855
01:16:01,260 --> 01:15:59,110
the back we're going to put this fish in

1856
01:16:04,110 --> 01:16:01,270
my hand it's like a little bit of what's

1857
01:16:06,870 --> 01:16:04,120
the call down a cellophane silver Fang

1858
01:16:09,750 --> 01:16:06,880
okay what sure my hand and it's curling

1859
01:16:11,940 --> 01:16:09,760
up into a big complete curl both ends

1860
01:16:14,100 --> 01:16:11,950
now what does that signify that you're

1861
01:16:16,380 --> 01:16:14,110
passionate Richard or the fishies I

1862
01:16:19,530 --> 01:16:16,390
don't know no slip sweep over in my head

1863
01:16:21,300 --> 01:16:19,540
turns over that's false therefore you're

1864
01:16:25,560 --> 01:16:21,310
not passionate no passion no you're not

1865
01:16:30,870 --> 01:16:28,680
oh now it's gone back into it oh it

1866
01:16:34,319 --> 01:16:30,880
loves you it's passionate again can we

1867
01:16:36,359 --> 01:16:34,329
try it on teeth I'm Tiffany yes see if

1868
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:36,369
she that's passionate is here oh you

1869
01:16:50,280 --> 01:16:45,149
if we can now and the tail is flexing

1870
01:16:52,260 --> 01:16:50,290
and it's wriggling a little bit oh oh

1871
01:16:54,300 --> 01:16:52,270
it's in love that's a gone into it

1872
01:16:55,680 --> 01:16:54,310
according to this it the moving head and

1873
01:17:00,990 --> 01:16:55,690
tail means it's in love with you today

1874
01:17:04,830 --> 01:17:01,000
my gosh and I like it now it's great

1875
01:17:06,629 --> 01:17:04,840
that's lovely now Rachel can you please

1876
01:17:09,540 --> 01:17:06,639
tell our listeners especially in Sydney

1877
01:17:12,419 --> 01:17:09,550
for a moment about the meetup group I

1878
01:17:14,970 --> 01:17:12,429
can some of you may have heard of the

1879
01:17:17,030 --> 01:17:14,980
website called meetup com it's a social

1880
01:17:18,629 --> 01:17:17,040
networking website that contains

1881
01:17:21,359 --> 01:17:18,639
hundreds and hundreds of different

1882
01:17:24,600 --> 01:17:21,369
groups that have varied interests I

1883
01:17:26,100 --> 01:17:24,610
co-run the Sydney skeptics meet up and

1884
01:17:30,140 --> 01:17:26,110
we've been going since februari this

1885
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:30,150
year and we've recently hit 111 members

1886
01:17:37,030 --> 01:17:33,570
and we do we organize lots of meetings

1887
01:17:38,660 --> 01:17:37,040
around sydney lectures science lectures

1888
01:17:41,680 --> 01:17:38,670
visits to things like the

1889
01:17:44,870 --> 01:17:41,690
mind-body-spirit festival ghost tours

1890
01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:44,880
and we also regularly attend the

1891
01:17:50,390 --> 01:17:46,650
skeptics in the pub which is organised

1892
01:17:53,540 --> 01:17:50,400
by you Richard yeah so if you are in

1893
01:17:55,100 --> 01:17:53,550
Sydney head to meetup com and do a

1894
01:17:57,110 --> 01:17:55,110
search for Sydney skeptics and you'll

1895
01:17:59,360 --> 01:17:57,120
find us and you can join our group and

1896
01:18:01,370 --> 01:17:59,370
we send out emails every so often when

1897
01:18:03,350 --> 01:18:01,380
we organize different functions or

1898
01:18:05,330 --> 01:18:03,360
events and you can come and meet some

1899
01:18:07,010 --> 01:18:05,340
fellow skeptics and while we're at it

1900
01:18:09,020 --> 01:18:07,020
Tiffany can you tell us a little bit

1901
01:18:10,970 --> 01:18:09,030
more about the quarry skeptics how's

1902
01:18:12,590 --> 01:18:10,980
that going yes it's going pretty good at

1903
01:18:14,120 --> 01:18:12,600
the moment we've got a group at our

1904
01:18:17,390 --> 01:18:14,130
university that's Macquarie University

1905
01:18:19,790 --> 01:18:17,400
in North ride Sydney our group is called

1906
01:18:23,360 --> 01:18:19,800
the Macquarie skeptics you can find us

1907
01:18:26,209 --> 01:18:23,370
at McLaury skeptics com or alternatively

1908
01:18:29,120 --> 01:18:26,219
we have a Facebook group that we're very

1909
01:18:30,890 --> 01:18:29,130
active on on Facebook just search for

1910
01:18:33,500 --> 01:18:30,900
skeptics at Macquarie and you will find

1911
01:18:35,419 --> 01:18:33,510
us a lot of our events coincide with the

1912
01:18:36,830 --> 01:18:35,429
Sydney skeptics what they're doing at

1913
01:18:38,660 --> 01:18:36,840
the moment a lot of us will be at the

1914
01:18:40,939 --> 01:18:38,670
skeptics in the pub tomorrow night yep

1915
01:18:43,310 --> 01:18:40,949
we also have our own Macquarie skeptics

1916
01:18:45,050 --> 01:18:43,320
in the pub and at the moment we're just

1917
01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:45,060
getting a whole bunch of exciting stuff

1918
01:18:48,950 --> 01:18:47,610
organized for next year such as a

1919
01:18:51,440 --> 01:18:48,960
skeptics week

1920
01:18:54,890 --> 01:18:51,450
and that's in direct response to Christ

1921
01:18:56,540 --> 01:18:54,900
week isn't a Tiffany correct it was a

1922
01:18:59,090 --> 01:18:56,550
Christ week at our University of the

1923
01:19:00,709 --> 01:18:59,100
month ago so what happens during Christ

1924
01:19:03,220 --> 01:19:00,719
week two people walk around exclaiming

1925
01:19:08,750 --> 01:19:03,230
Christ or yeah and all the x-rays of you

1926
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:08,760
turn all the essays agenda to me so they

1927
01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:10,890
are except aiming for our people get

1928
01:19:20,290 --> 01:19:14,010
executed it can last without why did I

1929
01:19:29,180 --> 01:19:20,300
leave this to the lab quite a million

1930
01:19:31,459 --> 01:19:29,190
ticular revolution that epiphany I like

1931
01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:31,469
to thank amanda rose and rachel dunlop

1932
01:19:35,360 --> 01:19:33,330
and Tiffany Derry for joining me for

1933
01:19:37,459 --> 01:19:35,370
this fabulous session of the think tank

1934
01:19:39,530 --> 01:19:37,469
again thanks Richard good to be here

1935
01:19:41,870 --> 01:19:39,540
again thank you it should be thanks and

1936
01:19:44,390 --> 01:19:41,880
we look forward to another think tank in

1937
01:19:46,729 --> 01:19:44,400
about two weeks time hey everyone go to

1938
01:19:50,270 --> 01:19:46,739
iTunes and subscribe to keep us up there

1939
01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:50,280
if you have a spare computer just add us

1940
01:19:54,979 --> 01:19:53,010
subscribe you want to keep beating Oprah

1941
01:20:12,120 --> 01:19:54,989
and Hillsong is I always say tell one

1942
01:20:17,620 --> 01:20:15,460
well that was a great emphasis 20 raised

1943
01:20:19,840 --> 01:20:17,630
to everything thank you flying spaghetti

1944
01:20:21,730 --> 01:20:19,850
monster yeah thank you James Randi and

1945
01:20:23,710 --> 01:20:21,740
Ben Redford obviously now they are

1946
01:20:26,410 --> 01:20:23,720
spiritual beings they really I think so

1947
01:20:27,430 --> 01:20:26,420
yeah I think so now the next episode

1948
01:20:29,410 --> 01:20:27,440
will be coming out in two weeks time

1949
01:20:31,030 --> 01:20:29,420
with so many special guests I can't even

1950
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:31,040
tell you ah it's ready the what is it

1951
01:20:34,510 --> 01:20:32,810
almost a Christmas special it will

1952
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:34,520
almost be our Christmas but without that

1953
01:20:38,950 --> 01:20:36,890
a little bit still keep us tipped into

1954
01:20:40,870 --> 01:20:38,960
the religion spirituality is a very

1955
01:20:42,790 --> 01:20:40,880
spiritual time of the year is a time of

1956
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:42,800
the year very festive and so it's

1957
01:20:46,450 --> 01:20:44,690
another great show and thanks listeners

1958
01:20:48,580 --> 01:20:46,460
for upper sticking around and emphasis

1959
01:20:50,200 --> 01:20:48,590
cry because the numbers ELPS the numbers

1960
01:20:52,420 --> 01:20:50,210
are just shooting up that we looking at

1961
01:20:53,980 --> 01:20:52,430
the charts and they're in the thousands

1962
01:20:55,570 --> 01:20:53,990
and we're very happy thank you everybody

1963
01:20:57,880 --> 01:20:55,580
here and the feedback we're getting is

1964
01:20:59,290 --> 01:20:57,890
it's great to have an Aussie series show

1965
01:21:01,570 --> 01:20:59,300
there's quite a few skeptic Chester and

1966
01:21:03,400 --> 01:21:01,580
we love them all but but us Ozzy's down

1967
01:21:05,740 --> 01:21:03,410
under yeah we've got our own little way

1968
01:21:07,330 --> 01:21:05,750
of doing things and yeah we love it we

1969
01:21:09,130 --> 01:21:07,340
love the fact that you're interested

1970
01:21:10,480 --> 01:21:09,140
it's just upside down that's all and

1971
01:21:11,920 --> 01:21:10,490
thanks thanks to the people who've been

1972
01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:11,930
writing i know dr. H she told me that

1973
01:21:16,510 --> 01:21:14,810
she's been getting letters emails asking

1974
01:21:17,980 --> 01:21:16,520
her medical questions and quackery

1975
01:21:20,140 --> 01:21:17,990
questions so yeah that's really great

1976
01:21:21,790 --> 01:21:20,150
yeah please keep your your emails coming

1977
01:21:23,710 --> 01:21:21,800
in sending those cards and letters yes

1978
01:21:25,630 --> 01:21:23,720
excellent and thanks for listening let's

1979
01:21:27,130 --> 01:21:25,640
let's come back in two weeks time and do

1980
01:21:30,510 --> 01:21:27,140
it all again see you then staff alright

1981
01:21:36,330 --> 01:21:32,520
you've been listening to the skeptic

1982
01:21:39,540 --> 01:21:36,340
zone visit our website at www skipped

1983
01:21:43,530 --> 01:21:39,550
exhume TV for comments contacts and

1984
01:21:43,540 --> 01:21:54,439
skin